Star Wars Episode IX - The Rise Of Skywalker - Discusson Topic

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TKTB51
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Re: Star Wars Episode IX - The Rise Of Skywalker - Discusson Topic

Post#211 » Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:41 am

Rey ex machina

that's all I have to contribute to this thread - yes, Luke was supposed to be the most powerful jedi, and then Rey, of "unknown parentage" and crappy training ... is just ... special?

I'm sorry, that's an appeal to the GenXers who think every fucking member of the team deserves a trophy and that all ideas matter - no, if you don't do the work, you don't get a trophy, you get fired. Not everyone is special, not everyone has super potential just lurking under the surface, waiting to show itself.

/end rant
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TNT
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Re: Star Wars Episode IX - The Rise Of Skywalker - Discusson Topic

Post#212 » Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:37 am

ObiWanKenobi2016 wrote:I don't think TLj was a good movie, even ignoring the inconsistencies with TFA and it's place as part of a wider franchise. The 40 minute casino sub plot that led to nothing was a waste of time. The poorly copied plot device of chasing starships but being unable to catch them doesn't work in the Star Wars universe where only v small ships don't have hyperdrives. Killing off the principal villain so easily, and in the middle of the movie is a poor idea, badly executed. Mary Poppins Leia, Mary Sue Rey, the space horses fiasco, Holdo not telling Poe and others of her plan, etc. These are all critical failings in the story telling of that movie.


As I've said elsewhere, I don't think TLJ will maintain it's critical favour over time. Thwarted expectations and unexpected deaths were a v 2017 critical phenomenon, due to the popularity of Game of Thrones which had several of them. Game of Thrones however, did them in a story told over multiple episodes and multiple seasons. A 2 hour (or 2 hour 30) movie is a very different medium in which to tell a story. It just doesn't work in that context.


And re the OT
TNT wrote:And yes, that the only chance of giving the original cast a good sendoff was squandered hurts like hell and pisses me off.


Absolutely. Leia was deified, Han was demeaned and Luke Skywalker was used to get the audience interested in posters and trailers, and then either not shown or character assassinated in a catastrophic fashion.


I have no doubt that the reason they struggled to do anything with Luke Skywalker was that he was hard to write for. He was supposed to be the all powerful jedi, and according to Lucas, the most powerful Jedi there ever has been or will be. The script-writing challenge with him in a story is that if he's not killed off, why don't the other characters go to him, get him to take on the First Order / Snoke and win the battle for them (and yet, that's exactly what they did with Rey). However, this same problem is dealt with in the Marvel franchise in movie after movie, whether it be Thor (a demi-god), the Hulk, Ironman, Spider-Man, and in the DC franchise with Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, and the list goes on and on and on.


The Rian Johnson solution was lazy writing and grated harshly with all that we knew of that character (the main character) in the OT.

I don't think it was a good movie either and the critical success is undeserved.
I enjoyed my time with it, but it left me frustrated on so many levels.
From Canto Bight and the pointless death of Ackbar, Perfect Angel Rey, to Luke's ultimate fate. (Not all the levels you mention though.)
However, some of the ideas in there were good.
Force Skype worked well.
For a large part of the movie it was setting up a switch between Rey and Kylo, had they followed through on that it could've been fantastic. Imagine them switching places and Luke and Kylo teaming up to stop her as she discovers she's a Palpatine. Luke sacrifices himself allowing a redeemed Rey and Kylo to double team and defeat the Emperor. Bam, better send off for Luke and interesting character development for everyone involved.
Hobo Luke is still something I can support and see and is actually a pretty interesting way to go at it. The problem is that it doesn't fit with what TFA had set up.
And I really wish they'd done his redemption better. :(
I will also always maintain that the death of Snoke was perfect, he went out like a chump and that lame ass Emperor copy deserved nothing better.

Now imagine the better ideas of Rian in a movie(s) not restricted by setups from a previous movie or historical baggage.
Rian can craft excellent movies (I can highly recommend Knives out). TLJ however was not excellent.


Meanwhile JJ gave us A New Hope with the serial numbers filed off and a mess partially of his own making filled to the brim with unnecessary shout outs, Avatar state Jedi and physical object teleportation through force skype. Even if both movies felt more Starwars than the Rian movie, from a story perspective at this point I have a higher expectation of Rian making a good standalone movie than JJ.
But that may just be me.
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ObiWanKenobi2016
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Re: Star Wars Episode IX - The Rise Of Skywalker - Discusson Topic

Post#213 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:54 am

TNT wrote:
... physical object teleportation through force skype.

This was stupidly daft. So was the "channelling of the Force" nonsense that defeated Palpatine.

As was Force magic healing, and life force transference.

In terms of jump-the-shark stupidity, it's right up there with Force holograms, although that one is really in a class of its own.
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TKTB51
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Re: Star Wars Episode IX - The Rise Of Skywalker - Discusson Topic

Post#214 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:02 am

nuke-the-fridge stupidity
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Richaldo
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Re: Star Wars Episode IX - The Rise Of Skywalker - Discusson Topic

Post#215 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:12 am

Still trying to spot Kessen somewhere in the franchise??? hehe ;)
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mkenobi
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Re: Star Wars Episode IX - The Rise Of Skywalker - Discusson Topic

Post#216 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:16 am

TLJ would have been a good movie if it wasn't a STAR WARS movie.

Looking back calmly, it is a film with great technical qualities - despite the Canto sequence that is totally useless for the narrative - mainly because Johnson used a personal aesthetic (he did not copy the plans of the original films as Abrams did in TFA), and "Reylo" has reached a level of sensuality that has never been seen in the series. When you think things are going to get hot between Rey and Ben, Abrams throws a bucket of cold water, as if to say, "Good girls don't go for bad guys, not in my movie!" and kill him in the end!

Let this trilogy burn, let it burn to the ashes. Disney will pay the price for ruining the most beloved franchise of all time. George Lucas must be laughing, because now no one can't blame him anymore for stupid dialogues, stupid characters and cheap explanations - like Midiclorian.

And Rey is very cute, don't mess with her! And she's not a Mary Sue! She understands Wookie better than Han, understands the language of the droids better than C-3P0, flies anything better than Poe (he said), kicks a Lord Sith's butt without ever having used a lightsaber, does mind tricks better than Obi-Wan, moves objects better than Yoda, and heals dying people, what's the problem with all that!

I love Rey, I hope we have a new trilogy or a TV series just with her! No Finn, no Poe, no Rose, only Rey. Or maybe Marvel puts Daisy Ridley in their upcoming movies as she is getting good in playing superheroes.
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TKTB51
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Re: Star Wars Episode IX - The Rise Of Skywalker - Discusson Topic

Post#217 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:31 pm

I don't think, please correct me, but I don't think anyone's ever seen Super Rey and Bad Wolf Rose Tyler in the same place, at the same time.
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Pepsidoc
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Re: Star Wars Episode IX - The Rise Of Skywalker - Discusson Topic

Post#218 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:35 pm

All I have to say is 2 hashtags

#rememberAckbar

And

#starwarsendedatVI +mando


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Harshit
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Re: Star Wars Episode IX - The Rise Of Skywalker - Discusson Topic

Post#219 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:17 pm

For those who seen EP 9 till now, for those who love/hate crazy donkeys:

Image
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ObiWanKenobi2016
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Re: Star Wars Episode IX - The Rise Of Skywalker - Discusson Topic

Post#220 » Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:13 am

TKTB51 wrote:I don't think, please correct me, but I don't think anyone's ever seen Super Rey and Bad Wolf Rose Tyler in the same place, at the same time.

:lol:

Brilliant!

... and true ...
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