Jumper/Jetpack Trooper Skins/Equipment Upgrade

Please post any suggestions that could make the game more enjoyable for everyone. Feel free to also encourage Disney with praise of things you like.
strawman3125
Admiral
Posts: 907

Re: Jumper/Jetpack Trooper Skins/Equipment Upgrade

Post#41 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:14 am

Midge wrote:Oh fuck ... this one really took off with the crybabies.

Don't bother, Bob. Seriously. Just know that they are idiots and move on.

If you're lucky they will tell you how they are going to smoke your base ... and then duck it despite you sitting on the same planet for months waiting for them.

And they will claim 15% more damage is not a big deal ... unless it is being done to them of course.

It is all crybaby bullshit. The game, in general, is as balanced as it has been. Both sides are racking up defenses. That is the main issue. The biggest imbalance is still a larger Dev base pool for Imps.

I must say ... my favorite thing in the thread is a "Rebel Recruiting Tool." That is some of the dumbest shit I have ever read, and I edit what politicians say for a living.


LOL this thread was funny enough with the crybabies and now we have people cry about crybabies! I'm going to need more popcorn!


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Midge
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1230

Re: Jumper/Jetpack Trooper Skins/Equipment Upgrade

Post#42 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:20 am

strawman3125 wrote:
Midge wrote:Oh fuck ... this one really took off with the crybabies.

Don't bother, Bob. Seriously. Just know that they are idiots and move on.

If you're lucky they will tell you how they are going to smoke your base ... and then duck it despite you sitting on the same planet for months waiting for them.

And they will claim 15% more damage is not a big deal ... unless it is being done to them of course.

It is all crybaby bullshit. The game, in general, is as balanced as it has been. Both sides are racking up defenses. That is the main issue. The biggest imbalance is still a larger Dev base pool for Imps.

I must say ... my favorite thing in the thread is a "Rebel Recruiting Tool." That is some of the dumbest shit I have ever read, and I edit what politicians say for a living.


LOL this thread was funny enough with the crybabies and now we have people cry about crybabies! I'm going to need more popcorn!


Ah ... nothing like a crybaby calling out someone for calling them out.

Vicious cycle. It is like calling someone a troll and then getting called a troll for calling them that.

Really all crybabies and trolls can do.
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Gaardian
Commodore
Posts: 103

Re: Jumper/Jetpack Trooper Skins/Equipment Upgrade

Post#43 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:23 am

Base sniper have 300% bonus vs infantry while sharps have 200%. That’s a 50% difference right there.

The difference is larger than you indicate. But I’m fine with that. Personally I think imperial vehicles need to be buffed up a bit so imperial players concentrate more on them while Rebs concentrate more on infantry.


strawman3125
Admiral
Posts: 907

Re: Jumper/Jetpack Trooper Skins/Equipment Upgrade

Post#44 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:02 am

Midge wrote:
strawman3125 wrote:
Midge wrote:Oh fuck ... this one really took off with the crybabies.

Don't bother, Bob. Seriously. Just know that they are idiots and move on.

If you're lucky they will tell you how they are going to smoke your base ... and then duck it despite you sitting on the same planet for months waiting for them.

And they will claim 15% more damage is not a big deal ... unless it is being done to them of course.

It is all crybaby bullshit. The game, in general, is as balanced as it has been. Both sides are racking up defenses. That is the main issue. The biggest imbalance is still a larger Dev base pool for Imps.

I must say ... my favorite thing in the thread is a "Rebel Recruiting Tool." That is some of the dumbest shit I have ever read, and I edit what politicians say for a living.


LOL this thread was funny enough with the crybabies and now we have people cry about crybabies! I'm going to need more popcorn!


Ah ... nothing like a crybaby calling out someone for calling them out.

Vicious cycle. It is like calling someone a troll and then getting called a troll for calling them that.

Really all crybabies and trolls can do.


Ok,ok.. I admit that my comment that PvP is dead and that we should just accept that PvDev is the new norm was was a little trolling. If that offends you, I apologize. I. will go back to attacking some dev bases. But before I go: "Long live the new king: PvDev!" ;)


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FruitBowlMafia
Major General
Posts: 301

Re: jumper/jetpack troopers skins/equipment upgrade

Post#45 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:13 am

thecursedpit wrote:
FruitBowlMafia wrote:That is what I already quoted, where is the 60% advantage?

You stripped my comment a bit too. “Jet differences are there because of multiple differences in factions. For instance; Turret differences, different GR multiplyers, Hero differences.”

Imp Jumps fire only one shot instead of two. That shot does nearly twice damage as the two shots from a Reb Jet.
Imp = 1shot 3900
Reb = 2shot 2268

Imp Jumps have a shorter shot delay as well. So the one more damaging shot can be fired more often.
Imp = 500ms
Reb = 750ms

Overall calculated DPS is in favor of the Reb Jet with the skinned advantage.
Imp = 1813
Imp = Skin *162%
Reb = 2592
Reb = Skin *188%


To be honest, purely based on the jet/jump discussion, you are both wrong in your calculations:

The whole discussion was about skinned units I believe, not unskinned. The damage per second/cycle displayed on Papajessie is correct in that case and yes, it shows that rebel jets have an unskinned dps advantage of +-45%, and a skinned dps advantage of +- 55%.

The whole part where your calculations went wrong, is the confusing term "shot" vs "projectile". Which is incorrectly used on Papajessie. Let me explain:
Unskinned, both jumps/jets shoot 1 time, but a jet shoots 2 projectiles in that 1(!!) shot. So the damage actually reads
Imp = 3900 from 1shot 1 projectile
Reb = 4536 from 1shot with 2 projectiles
Skinned, both jumps/jets shoot 2 times, but a jet shoots 2 projectiles per shot, hence the eroniously labeled "4 shots" on Papajessie, which should read: jumps 2 projectiles in 2 shots, jets 4 projectiles in 2 shots.

As for shot delay: There is no shot delay unskinned and that number should be removed since they only fire 1 shot each. The shooting cycle duration and dps is correctly calculated though:
Jumps: 150ms charge time + 2 sec recharge = 2.15 sec cycle.
Jets: 250 ms charge time + 1.5 sec recharge = 1.75 sec cycle.
Since both units have an impact delay of 1 sec, they both will get their shot/projectile(s) in before rockets/bursts/sonics start shooting back, which is also a very important factor.

I don't really care about the unskinned advantage of jets: it only matters in squad wars and with tako, either unit crushes whatever is in front of it. If tako is not involved, there are better options than jumps in my opinion.

Also important when you look at skinned data is how many shots a jump/jet gets in before a turret shoots back.
Long story short, but you need 6 jets to destroy a lvl 10 turret (rocket/burst) with lvl 10 skin, whereas 8 jumps are needed to pull of the same feat (in the first shot in discussion, jets have a 25% damage advantage +-, not 55%).

Not wanting to bash on either of you in this discussion, but talking purely about jets/jumps, these are the correct numbers and use those in your further discussion.

As for the off topic sniper guard reserve discussion in here:
Yeah, rodians have a better multiplier vs jets. A lvl 7 reserve with lvl 5 skin would mean a rodian does 15% more damage vs jets than a sharshooter vs jumps.
In my opinion, 15% damage isn't much of a deal, especially if you count in that sharshooters spawn 4/5sec faster per wave, which is also an enormous advantage.


Man, I'm not trying to attack you either.. It's just the OP & others cant just say "Nerf Jets" without mentioning all the other mitigating factors. Also, there is a purpose & reason for Shot Count & Delay. OP wants equal jets/jumps, but doesn't take into account why they are the way they are.

Well... How equal I ask?

    1. If you just want the 188% skin, then we must correct the Shot count & Shot delay to be the same as well. Are they wanting single projectile lower delay monsters? How is that fair?

    2. We must also equalize Burst turrets, Imp bursts have more shots in the clip & do more damage per shot with shorter delays.

    3. GR snipers with Sully skin @least need their modifiers for flyers changed from 200% to 300% like the Rodian.

    4. Rebs need a skin for Luke so we shit troopers & swing sabers on all planets too.

    5. I don't want to take anyone's toys like the OP, but the AT-ACT is a great unit & it would be awesome if I could one shot a HQ with levX bracing. (even on 3 planets)

    Just to be clear, I don't want all these suggested changes. I'm not claiming Imp faction to be OP, just stating facts that highlight reasons for the Jet/Jump differences.

Now, with that said again, and hopefully clearly this time.. Lets touch on what you told me about calculations.

"The whole part where your calculations went wrong, is the confusing term "shot" vs "projectile". Which is incorrectly used on Papajessie. Let me explain:
Unskinned, both jumps/jets shoot 1 time, but a jet shoots 2 projectiles in that 1(!!) shot. So the damage actually reads
Imp = 3900 from 1shot 1 projectile
Reb = 4536 from 1shot with 2 projectiles
Skinned, both jumps/jets shoot 2 times, but a jet shoots 2 projectiles per shot, hence the eroniously labeled "4 shots" on Papajessie, which should read: jumps 2 projectiles in 2 shots, jets 4 projectiles in 2 shots."


Call it what you want, shot or projectile. This doesn't change the fact that Jets shoot twice & Jumps shoot once. I also agreed that the Reb Jet has the advantage. It's just not even in the ballpark of 60% with the other factional differences. Also those are not my calculations, that's game data from you all know where.

    1. When attacking a Imp burst farm, the time it takes to get both shots off with longer shot delay gets the Reb Jets smashed.

    2. Not only do you have to fire twice with a longer shot delay.. The Imp Burst turret you are attacking has more "projectiles" in the clip & does more damage per "projectile"

    3. The only advantage in firing two slower projectiles is mowing down GR troops.

So to wrap this up simple, below is what Impz want when they say Nerf Jet's or Buff Jumps right?

    1. No change to the damage per projectile, no change to shot count or delay of the Imp Jump. That if boosted to 188% with no other factor's changed would be completely unfair.

    2. No change to GR Rodian that does 100% more damage against flyers. Flyer damage multiplier is 300% vs. Reb 200% btw.

    3. No change to the Imp burst turrets that are more powerfull by having larger clips, more damage per projectile.

    4. No change to Heros, because C3p0 was such a great addition next to the Vader skin...
Last edited by FruitBowlMafia on Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Lone_Rebellion


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Ghostie
Major General
Posts: 327

Re: Jumper/Jetpack Trooper Skins/Equipment Upgrade

Post#46 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:31 am

Fake news and Rebel propaganda....loving this thread!

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Some men aren't looking for any logical solution. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn. The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth.


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FruitBowlMafia
Major General
Posts: 301

Re: Jumper/Jetpack Trooper Skins/Equipment Upgrade

Post#47 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:06 pm

Gaardian wrote:Base sniper have 300% bonus vs infantry while sharps have 200%. That’s a 50% difference right there.

The difference is larger than you indicate. But I’m fine with that. Personally I think imperial vehicles need to be buffed up a bit so imperial players concentrate more on them while Rebs concentrate more on infantry.


I agree bro, the Imp's could use a strong generalist vehicle @low UC cost.

&Rebz could use a skin for Luke.

What sucks is these debates/arguments are lost on the development team... Shame on Disney & Zynga for not having @least a twitter page to respond and explain decisions they make.
Lone_Rebellion


Boog
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1622

Re: Jumper/Jetpack Trooper Skins/Equipment Upgrade

Post#48 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:55 pm

Gaardian wrote:Base sniper have 300% bonus vs infantry while sharps have 200%. That’s a 50% difference right there.

The difference is larger than you indicate. But I’m fine with that. Personally I think imperial vehicles need to be buffed up a bit so imperial players concentrate more on them while Rebs concentrate more on infantry.



It's not that big of a difference because of the higher UC of the sharps compared to snipers. A level 4 sharp does 1408 dps (per second) vs 1232 for a level 4 sniper; those are the units spawned from level 10 GR. When you factor in the multipliers, sharps do 2816 dps vs. flyers and snipers do 3696 dps, which is ~31% more damage. Sharps spawn five seconds faster and have higher health. I wouldn't complain about that.

It is mostly moot if you have good skins. A level 4 sharp with level 10 skins does 3052 damage per shot and 6104 damage per shot to a flyer. If it is taking on a max jumper (47,537 hp), it will need 8 shots to knock it down. OTOH, a level 4 sniper with level 10 skins does 2670 damage per shot and 8010 damage per shot to flyers. To knock down a max jet (52,254 hp), it takes 7 shots. So, the GR Rodian will kill a flyer one shot faster, which is 0.5 seconds faster with a shot delay of 500 ms.

If you're comparing SC units (level 11), then here is the breakdown:

Sullustan 6176 damage per shot; 12352 damage per shot to a jump; 4 shots to kill a max jumper
Rodian 5406 damage per shot; 16218 damage per shot to flyers; 4 shots to kill a max jet

The higher UC of the sharp is a penalty on that one.

Personally, I say keep it the way it is. I like the fact that rebels attack with jet spam. It's not that hard to defend against. And I am a huge fan of jets in the SC. They are easy to kill if you are ready for them. Sullustans in the SC are a much bigger problem, imo.


thecursedpit
Commander
Posts: 45

Re: Jumper/Jetpack Trooper Skins/Equipment Upgrade

Post#49 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:52 am

@Fruitbowlmafia: good response and I agree with quite a number of things mentioned!

As for the points you mentioned:
1) I'm perfectly ok with jumps/jets being as they are, jets are stronger in my opinion but in the grand total picture of units, that should be ok.

2) In my opinion, rapid and burst turrets on both sides need rebalancing and to be equalized.

3) Disagree here, as I said: yeah the rodian does a bit more damage (not 100%!! Rebel sniper has higher base damage), but the faster spawn times make up for it in my opinion. That can be a total game changer in an attack.

4) Not agreed either, I just think all the heroes on both sides need rebalancing :) And yes, especially rebels need to have their options become way more interesting and boosted.

5) See point 4, the atact is indeed a beast, though it also sometimes goes wondering around doing nothing due to the retarded ai, or is so slow that it kills 1-2 shields and does nothing else. Personally, I prefer vader anyway.

As for the shot count discussion:
I would need to have you on Line, but I can show you in video examples of regular pvp and squad wars that jumps/jets both fire an equal amount of shots: both 1 shot unskinned, 2 shots skinned. Only difference is that in that shot, 2 projectiles hit if it's a jet.

1) It depends on how many jets are "charging in". If 6 fire on a turret, it's destroyed before the turret shoots back. if it's 5 or less, the burst will get some projectiles in yeah.
Also, since jumps deal less damage, they'll also get shot at by rebel burst farms.

2) Well, the lower damage and health from jumps also gives imps a similar problem with rebel bursts. But, as said, I think all turrets should be the same for both factions. Who knows with time.

3) That sure is an advantage. But still, if jumps or jets really only needed 1 shot to deal all their damage potential, offense would be way too unbalanced vs defense (purely talking jumps/jets).


As for the wrap up:
1) well, I think it's ok to keep jumps/jets as they are, no change required.

2) disagree, see point 3 in the opening part of my response. However, I'd far more prefer to have imperial sniper reserves scrapped altogether and replaced by a vehicle reserve like the atst or probe droids. Just to make differences between factions more apparent, which would be great for the game.

3&4) no matter what other imps may say, I agree with you that turrets should be equalized and heroes need rebalancing.


On another note, I think for many people it isn't so much that factions are unbalanced, or offense/defense is much stronger than the other.
I agree with the angry man (he who always starts yelling "crybabies" and spouting negativity without actually adding anything normal to a discussion or reading any of the text properly ) that the thing is mostly that defenses are balanced as they should be in general.
I think having dev bases show up once every 2-6 searches for both factions would solve a lot of the debates and arguing amongst players.


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Midge
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1230

Re: Jumper/Jetpack Trooper Skins/Equipment Upgrade

Post#50 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:39 am

thecursedpit wrote:@Fruitbowlmafia: good response and I agree with quite a number of things mentioned!

Snip


On another note, I think for many people it isn't so much that factions are unbalanced, or offense/defense is much stronger than the other.
I agree with the angry man (he who always starts yelling "crybabies" and spouting negativity without actually adding anything normal to a discussion or reading any of the text properly ) that the thing is mostly that defenses are balanced as they should be in general.
I think having dev bases show up once every 2-6 searches for both factions would solve a lot of the debates and arguing amongst players.


I love saying someone offers nothing to the discussion and in the SAME BREATH saying you agree with that someone.

What are you agreeing with then?

:roll:

Still waiting for you to flatten my base like you said you would ... been on the same planet for weeks ...
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