Jumper/Jetpack Trooper Skins/Equipment Upgrade

Please post any suggestions that could make the game more enjoyable for everyone. Feel free to also encourage Disney with praise of things you like.
darthdoodie
Commodore
Posts: 242

Re: jumper/jetpack troopers skins/equipment upgrade

Post#31 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:19 am

Darthdave, the problem with this topic that has been played out many times before, is that you can't compare jumps to jets singularly.

You have to take into consideration what the jets are attacking. As soon as you look wider as has been touched on already, i.e turrets, GR, etc, then that nominal imbalance between jets and jumps becomes markedly less effective.

Yes, on paper jets have a big advantage, but in practise, a base with defensive buffs levels similar to the attacking buff levels, its quite a close contest. If anything, I'd say defensive buffs are stronger at equivalent levels than offensive, e.g. my jets have now got level 10 skins, but they still melt to glowing bursts. On the other hand, for my imp base, my turret buffs are only level 8, sniper GR level 5 and rodians a lowly level 2, yet I win over 70% of my Ds.


thecursedpit
Commander
Posts: 36

Re: jumper/jetpack troopers skins/equipment upgrade

Post#32 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:46 am

FruitBowlMafia wrote:That is what I already quoted, where is the 60% advantage?

You stripped my comment a bit too. “Jet differences are there because of multiple differences in factions. For instance; Turret differences, different GR multiplyers, Hero differences.”

Imp Jumps fire only one shot instead of two. That shot does nearly twice damage as the two shots from a Reb Jet.
Imp = 1shot 3900
Reb = 2shot 2268

Imp Jumps have a shorter shot delay as well. So the one more damaging shot can be fired more often.
Imp = 500ms
Reb = 750ms

Overall calculated DPS is in favor of the Reb Jet with the skinned advantage.
Imp = 1813
Imp = Skin *162%
Reb = 2592
Reb = Skin *188%


To be honest, purely based on the jet/jump discussion, you are both wrong in your calculations:

The whole discussion was about skinned units I believe, not unskinned. The damage per second/cycle displayed on Papajessie is correct in that case and yes, it shows that rebel jets have an unskinned dps advantage of +-45%, and a skinned dps advantage of +- 55%.

The whole part where your calculations went wrong, is the confusing term "shot" vs "projectile". Which is incorrectly used on Papajessie. Let me explain:
Unskinned, both jumps/jets shoot 1 time, but a jet shoots 2 projectiles in that 1(!!) shot. So the damage actually reads
Imp = 3900 from 1shot 1 projectile
Reb = 4536 from 1shot with 2 projectiles
Skinned, both jumps/jets shoot 2 times, but a jet shoots 2 projectiles per shot, hence the eroniously labeled "4 shots" on Papajessie, which should read: jumps 2 projectiles in 2 shots, jets 4 projectiles in 2 shots.

As for shot delay: There is no shot delay unskinned and that number should be removed since they only fire 1 shot each. The shooting cycle duration and dps is correctly calculated though:
Jumps: 150ms charge time + 2 sec recharge = 2.15 sec cycle.
Jets: 250 ms charge time + 1.5 sec recharge = 1.75 sec cycle.
Since both units have an impact delay of 1 sec, they both will get their shot/projectile(s) in before rockets/bursts/sonics start shooting back, which is also a very important factor.

I don't really care about the unskinned advantage of jets: it only matters in squad wars and with tako, either unit crushes whatever is in front of it. If tako is not involved, there are better options than jumps in my opinion.

Also important when you look at skinned data is how many shots a jump/jet gets in before a turret shoots back.
Long story short, but you need 6 jets to destroy a lvl 10 turret (rocket/burst) with lvl 10 skin, whereas 8 jumps are needed to pull of the same feat (in the first shot in discussion, jets have a 25% damage advantage +-, not 55%).

Not wanting to bash on either of you in this discussion, but talking purely about jets/jumps, these are the correct numbers and use those in your further discussion.

As for the off topic sniper guard reserve discussion in here:
Yeah, rodians have a better multiplier vs jets. A lvl 7 reserve with lvl 5 skin would mean a rodian does 15% more damage vs jets than a sharshooter vs jumps.
In my opinion, 15% damage isn't much of a deal, especially if you count in that sharshooters spawn 4/5sec faster per wave, which is also an enormous advantage.


DarkRebel
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1088

Re: jumper/jetpack troopers skins/equipment upgrade

Post#33 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:25 am

thecursedpit wrote:
FruitBowlMafia wrote:That is what I already quoted, where is the 60% advantage?

You stripped my comment a bit too. “Jet differences are there because of multiple differences in factions. For instance; Turret differences, different GR multiplyers, Hero differences.”

Imp Jumps fire only one shot instead of two. That shot does nearly twice damage as the two shots from a Reb Jet.
Imp = 1shot 3900
Reb = 2shot 2268

Imp Jumps have a shorter shot delay as well. So the one more damaging shot can be fired more often.
Imp = 500ms
Reb = 750ms

Overall calculated DPS is in favor of the Reb Jet with the skinned advantage.
Imp = 1813
Imp = Skin *162%
Reb = 2592
Reb = Skin *188%


To be honest, purely based on the jet/jump discussion, you are both wrong in your calculations:

The whole discussion was about skinned units I believe, not unskinned. The damage per second/cycle displayed on Papajessie is correct in that case and yes, it shows that rebel jets have an unskinned dps advantage of +-45%, and a skinned dps advantage of +- 55%.

The whole part where your calculations went wrong, is the confusing term "shot" vs "projectile". Which is incorrectly used on Papajessie. Let me explain:
Unskinned, both jumps/jets shoot 1 time, but a jet shoots 2 projectiles in that 1(!!) shot. So the damage actually reads
Imp = 3900 from 1shot 1 projectile
Reb = 4536 from 1shot with 2 projectiles
Skinned, both jumps/jets shoot 2 times, but a jet shoots 2 projectiles per shot, hence the eroniously labeled "4 shots" on Papajessie, which should read: jumps 2 projectiles in 2 shots, jets 4 projectiles in 2 shots.

As for shot delay: There is no shot delay unskinned and that number should be removed since they only fire 1 shot each. The shooting cycle duration and dps is correctly calculated though:
Jumps: 150ms charge time + 2 sec recharge = 2.15 sec cycle.
Jets: 250 ms charge time + 1.5 sec recharge = 1.75 sec cycle.
Since both units have an impact delay of 1 sec, they both will get their shot/projectile(s) in before rockets/bursts/sonics start shooting back, which is also a very important factor.

I don't really care about the unskinned advantage of jets: it only matters in squad wars and with tako, either unit crushes whatever is in front of it. If tako is not involved, there are better options than jumps in my opinion.

Also important when you look at skinned data is how many shots a jump/jet gets in before a turret shoots back.
Long story short, but you need 6 jets to destroy a lvl 10 turret (rocket/burst) with lvl 10 skin, whereas 8 jumps are needed to pull of the same feat (in the first shot in discussion, jets have a 25% damage advantage +-, not 55%).

Not wanting to bash on either of you in this discussion, but talking purely about jets/jumps, these are the correct numbers and use those in your further discussion.

As for the off topic sniper guard reserve discussion in here:
Yeah, rodians have a better multiplier vs jets. A lvl 7 reserve with lvl 5 skin would mean a rodian does 15% more damage vs jets than a sharshooter vs jumps.
In my opinion, 15% damage isn't much of a deal, especially if you count in that sharshooters spawn 4/5sec faster per wave, which is also an enormous advantage.

+1
Great post.


strawman3125
Major General
Posts: 382

Re: jumper/jetpack troopers skins/equipment upgrade

Post#34 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:49 am

FruitBowlMafia wrote:
strawman3125 wrote:
FruitBowlMafia wrote:I dont know where you get that number, its more than extreme to claim a 60% advantage.

Especially since there seems to be a misunderstanding around shot count & delay.

Never to late to join the Rebellion, MTFBWY...



https://papajessie.github.io/swcpy/

Calculated damage, already includes shot count and delay.

I primarily play my Rebel accounts these days! So much better!

Imperials can feel free to come and find me on Hoth and add to the rapidly growing count of imperial forces that have been melted by my skinned hails in my SC. Talk about over powered! It’s so awesome! I’m lovin it! When I’m back on a green world I will let you know and you can add to my double digit defensive wins there! My jets eat ATACTs for for snacks!

That is what I already quoted, where is the 60% advantage?

You stripped my comment a bit too. “Jet differences are there because of multiple differences in factions. For instance; Turret differences, different GR multiplyers, Hero differences.”

Imp Jumps fire only one shot instead of two. That shot does nearly twice damage as the two shots from a Reb Jet.
Imp = 1shot 3900
Reb = 2shot 2268

Imp Jumps have a shorter shot delay as well. So the one more damaging shot can be fired more often.
Imp = 500ms
Reb = 750ms

Overall calculated DPS is in favor of the Reb Jet with the skinned advantage.
Imp = 1813
Imp = Skin *162%
Reb = 2592
Reb = Skin *188%


2592*288/1813*262=1.57 or 57% more damage (I like to round up to 60)

My only contribution to this subject so far was about the accuracy of the jet/jump difference.

Since you asked about my opinion o the other factors:
-I think that both factions turrets should do the same damage
-I think that the difference in GRS/SS is small enough to not matter, one spawns faster, the other does more damage, seems balanced to me
-Based on the movies I think that the rebels hero’s should be weaker BUT they should be able to deploy 2 of them (excluding Kessen)


User avatar
Midge
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1228

Re: Jumper/Jetpack Trooper Skins/Equipment Upgrade

Post#35 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:11 am

Oh fuck ... this one really took off with the crybabies.

Don't bother, Bob. Seriously. Just know that they are idiots and move on.

If you're lucky they will tell you how they are going to smoke your base ... and then duck it despite you sitting on the same planet for months waiting for them.

And they will claim 15% more damage is not a big deal ... unless it is being done to them of course.

It is all crybaby bullshit. The game, in general, is as balanced as it has been. Both sides are racking up defenses. That is the main issue. The biggest imbalance is still a larger Dev base pool for Imps.

I must say ... my favorite thing in the thread is a "Rebel Recruiting Tool." That is some of the dumbest shit I have ever read, and I edit what politicians say for a living.
Leader of The Mob Syndicate

Home of TheMidnightMob, TheMorningMob, TheMiddayMob and TheMobWantsYou

Level X Rebel : Medal Maxed


DarkRebel
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1088

Re: Jumper/Jetpack Trooper Skins/Equipment Upgrade

Post#36 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:14 am

Midge wrote:Oh fuck ... this one really took off with the crybabies.

Don't bother, Bob. Seriously. Just know that they are idiots and move on.

If you're lucky they will tell you how they are going to smoke your base ... and then duck it despite you sitting on the same planet for months waiting for them.

And they will claim 15% more damage is not a big deal ... unless it is being done to them of course.

It is all crybaby bullshit. The game, in general, is as balanced as it has been. Both sides are racking up defenses. That is the main issue. The biggest imbalance is still a larger Dev base pool for Imps.

I must say ... my favorite thing in the thread is a "Rebel Recruiting Tool." That is some of the dumbest shit I have ever read, and I edit what politicians say for a living.

Hey, there is another crybaby on the other thread (ATACT) waiting for your response :)


User avatar
Midge
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1228

Re: Jumper/Jetpack Trooper Skins/Equipment Upgrade

Post#37 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:15 am

DarkRebel wrote:
Midge wrote:Oh fuck ... this one really took off with the crybabies.

Don't bother, Bob. Seriously. Just know that they are idiots and move on.

If you're lucky they will tell you how they are going to smoke your base ... and then duck it despite you sitting on the same planet for months waiting for them.

And they will claim 15% more damage is not a big deal ... unless it is being done to them of course.

It is all crybaby bullshit. The game, in general, is as balanced as it has been. Both sides are racking up defenses. That is the main issue. The biggest imbalance is still a larger Dev base pool for Imps.

I must say ... my favorite thing in the thread is a "Rebel Recruiting Tool." That is some of the dumbest shit I have ever read, and I edit what politicians say for a living.

Hey, there is another crybaby on the other thread (ATACT) waiting for your response :)


ON MY WAY!!!!!! :D
Leader of The Mob Syndicate

Home of TheMidnightMob, TheMorningMob, TheMiddayMob and TheMobWantsYou

Level X Rebel : Medal Maxed


User avatar
Gooner
Commodore
Posts: 148

Re: Jumper/Jetpack Trooper Skins/Equipment Upgrade

Post#38 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:21 am

Midge wrote:
DarkRebel wrote:
Midge wrote:Oh fuck ... this one really took off with the crybabies.

Don't bother, Bob. Seriously. Just know that they are idiots and move on.

If you're lucky they will tell you how they are going to smoke your base ... and then duck it despite you sitting on the same planet for months waiting for them.

And they will claim 15% more damage is not a big deal ... unless it is being done to them of course.

It is all crybaby bullshit. The game, in general, is as balanced as it has been. Both sides are racking up defenses. That is the main issue. The biggest imbalance is still a larger Dev base pool for Imps.

I must say ... my favorite thing in the thread is a "Rebel Recruiting Tool." That is some of the dumbest shit I have ever read, and I edit what politicians say for a living.

Hey, there is another crybaby on the other thread (ATACT) waiting for your response :)


ON MY WAY!!!!!! :D

hahaha, whiny fucks are in for it everywhere. people should just get on with it who cares if the AT-ACT Craps out troopers and it's hard to kill who cares if Rebs have got better Jet skins. Just play the game and have fun FFS Tell em Midge haha.


User avatar
Midge
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1228

Re: Jumper/Jetpack Trooper Skins/Equipment Upgrade

Post#39 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:22 am

Gooner wrote:
Midge wrote:
DarkRebel wrote:Hey, there is another crybaby on the other thread (ATACT) waiting for your response :)


ON MY WAY!!!!!! :D

hahaha, whiny fucks are in for it everywhere. people should just get on with it who cares if the AT-ACT Craps out troopers and it's hard to kill who cares if Rebs have got better Jet skins. Just play the game and have fun FFS Tell em Midge haha.


Dammit ... Goon. Now we got crybaby shit about crybaby shits.

Stop that shit.
Leader of The Mob Syndicate

Home of TheMidnightMob, TheMorningMob, TheMiddayMob and TheMobWantsYou

Level X Rebel : Medal Maxed


User avatar
Gooner
Commodore
Posts: 148

Re: Jumper/Jetpack Trooper Skins/Equipment Upgrade

Post#40 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:27 am

Midge wrote:
Gooner wrote:
Midge wrote:
ON MY WAY!!!!!! :D

hahaha, whiny fucks are in for it everywhere. people should just get on with it who cares if the AT-ACT Craps out troopers and it's hard to kill who cares if Rebs have got better Jet skins. Just play the game and have fun FFS Tell em Midge haha.


Dammit ... Goon. Now we got crybaby shit about crybaby shits.

Stop that shit.
Hahahahaha


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