An Armoury Free planet

Please post any suggestions that could make the game more enjoyable for everyone. Feel free to also encourage Disney with praise of things you like.
DarkRebel
Admiral
Posts: 933

Re: An Armoury Free planet

Post#21 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 5:08 am

rawrebel wrote:
DarkRebel wrote:
rawrebel wrote:
Also i belive imps would do juat fine even without Rft,bursts are really good without buff too,seeing them with dev bases on Tat against buffed jets and are preaty good.

It is just plain stupid to nerf IMP RFT to where it is now. DEV should restore IMP RFT back to the same level as rebel version. Any honest reb would not oppose against this.

Some dev decisions are hard to understand sometimes,imp Rft were too strong before nerf ,but now are ridiculous indeed.
And same goes to bursts,40% extra damage for imp version is to much,imo,turrets sould have same values on both sides,that way would be up to every player to findout the best combo/ layout that wotk for him.
Today the game is like walking on a stretch path devs putted in front of us and if you walk aside we endup in a dead end or return back to starting point.
As much as we try with different loads and various defensive configurations we are still costrained to use same units for attack to be succesfull and same turret combo&Gr to be able to defend

Not sure what you meant by the 40% buff being IMP only. The 40% multiplier against jumps/jets applies to both sides. IMP bursts do have about 10% advantage over reb version, to try to counter stronger rebel jets having 48% advantage over IMP jumps. It’s not horrible for rebs at high level with jets, but is bad at L5-7 when reb players don’t have jets unlocked.


Plagueis
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1395

Re: An Armoury Free planet

Post#22 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:53 pm

Bursts are nasty against any flier regardless of faction. I’m not a fan of attacking even rebel dev bases with glowing burst turrets. It’s often less trouble to deal with a base that has guard reserve, SC troops and a different turret selection.


rawrebel
Commodore
Posts: 229

Re: An Armoury Free planet

Post#23 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:55 pm

DarkRebel wrote:Not sure what you meant by the 40% buff being IMP only. The 40% multiplier against jumps/jets applies to both sides. IMP bursts do have about 10% advantage over reb version, to try to counter stronger rebel jets having 48% advantage over IMP jumps. It’s not horrible for rebs at high level with jets, but is bad at L5-7 when reb players don’t have jets unlocked.

True,wasn't vwry clear,
The basic difference between imp bursts and reb bursts is 11.4% in imp advantage,talcking about real damage ,calculated damage,not displayed damage that we all know is not real.
But the in game reality is a bit different,at lv 10 most imps allready have heat sink for bursts active ,a lv 7 heat sink is 129% extra damage ,them since most viable load for rebs are jets there goes another 140% multiplier,so we have an extra 269% boost, the basic 11.4% + 269% boost became 42.% for lv7 heatsink, 44.1 % extra damage for lv10 heatsink.
This is what a lv10 rebel need to face.
May be a counter for jets but imp also have rodians for that so i think there are way too many counter for those jets,not justified ad all.
Remember i know how is to attack on both sides.


Plagueis
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1395

Re: An Armoury Free planet

Post#24 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:52 pm

rawrebel wrote:
DarkRebel wrote:Not sure what you meant by the 40% buff being IMP only. The 40% multiplier against jumps/jets applies to both sides. IMP bursts do have about 10% advantage over reb version, to try to counter stronger rebel jets having 48% advantage over IMP jumps. It’s not horrible for rebs at high level with jets, but is bad at L5-7 when reb players don’t have jets unlocked.

True,wasn't vwry clear,
The basic difference between imp bursts and reb bursts is 11.4% in imp advantage,talcking about real damage ,calculated damage,not displayed damage that we all know is not real.
But the in game reality is a bit different,at lv 10 most imps allready have heat sink for bursts active ,a lv 7 heat sink is 129% extra damage ,them since most viable load for rebs are jets there goes another 140% multiplier,so we have an extra 269% boost, the basic 11.4% + 269% boost became 42.% for lv7 heatsink, 44.1 % extra damage for lv10 heatsink.
This is what a lv10 rebel need to face.
May be a counter for jets but imp also have rodians for that so i think there are way too many counter for those jets,not justified ad all.
Remember i know how is to attack on both sides.


In a single unit vs. a single turret, yes, the burst has the advantage and outshines the rebel version to some degree as the jet can’t one-shot it and has to absorb the damage coming back at it. This advantage may not be as apparent when fliers are deployed in a tight group and attack the same targets as burst turrets can only attack a single target and a simultaneous burst of jet damage can nuke a turret before it really has a chance to take advantage of that additional damage %. This is where true RoF comes into play which is where jets shine over jumps. This is why they’re so deadly when used in an SC on defense, even against buffed jumps. I guess it really depends on how you deploy your stuff offensively though and deploying in a tight group leaves your attack vulnerable to sonics or traps if also using ground units or heroes.


DarkRebel
Admiral
Posts: 933

Re: An Armoury Free planet

Post#25 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 4:20 pm

rawrebel wrote:
DarkRebel wrote:Not sure what you meant by the 40% buff being IMP only. The 40% multiplier against jumps/jets applies to both sides. IMP bursts do have about 10% advantage over reb version, to try to counter stronger rebel jets having 48% advantage over IMP jumps. It’s not horrible for rebs at high level with jets, but is bad at L5-7 when reb players don’t have jets unlocked.

True,wasn't vwry clear,
The basic difference between imp bursts and reb bursts is 11.4% in imp advantage,talcking about real damage ,calculated damage,not displayed damage that we all know is not real.
But the in game reality is a bit different,at lv 10 most imps allready have heat sink for bursts active ,a lv 7 heat sink is 129% extra damage ,them since most viable load for rebs are jets there goes another 140% multiplier,so we have an extra 269% boost, the basic 11.4% + 269% boost became 42.% for lv7 heatsink, 44.1 % extra damage for lv10 heatsink.
This is what a lv10 rebel need to face.
May be a counter for jets but imp also have rodians for that so i think there are way too many counter for those jets,not justified ad all.
Remember i know how is to attack on both sides.

This topic is not meant for balance discussion so I won’t continue with this, and also if you play on both sides then you probably knew that it’s not a cake walk to attack as IMP against tough rebel bases.

Back to this topic.

The introduction of the armory has created a large gap between active players and casual players.

To be competitive, you have to be active, very active. You need to compete in conflicts and get UltraChrome to get as many frags as possible. You do hero defense everyday. You need to get to the bonus stage in events, so that you can get extra frags to unlock and level up important units.

Players who are active are having tremendous advantage over those that aren’t. And understandbly, they don’t want to give back this advantage if we return back to the pre-armory time, when casual players could play at their own pace, and could still be competitive.

Now, someone once compared armory leveling up to a regular HQ level up. That is a fair comparison, but he missed one important factor: match making. If you get to higher HQ level, match making would likely match you up with opponents who have the same strength. If you play casual, and stay at lower level longer, it’s still okay as you don’t have to face players (both offense and defense) who are a lot stronger than you are. Not so with armory.

So, to survive in today environment, you either have to be very active, or quit, or restart the game at lower level where armory doesn’t have a huge impact.

I see a planet without armory as a solution to keep casual players in the game. Another solution is to take into account armory level for match making, just like regular troop/building level, and match players with high armory level with other players with equivalent armory level. Casual players with low or no armory level will be matched with other casual players, or with active players at lower HQ level.

As fixing match making to consider armory equipment is likely very complicated, an easy solution is to go back to pre-armory era , and having a planet without armory is one way to achieve it.

As it is, casual players are leaving the game because they can’t compete.
Active players are leaving the game because the continuous grinding is tiring, boring, and it’s like a chore, like work. So they eventually get burned out, bored, and quit.


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SFOne
Commodore
Posts: 108

Re: An Armoury Free planet

Post#26 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 6:10 pm

So I started end of 2016 and hit level 6 right about the time heavies and regs on both sides were insanely OP. So my no armoury experience comes from a few no op attacks, and hitting some of these max level 10 dev bases without armoury equipment during events.

Perhaps it is because it is something entirely new to me that I find these types of attacks very rewarding and fun.

I like the armoury. I like GR as much as I have banged my head up against it and sometimes wanted to throw my phone across the room after a plant. But it's implementation has created a huge gulf between the have and have nots that just drives people away. As much as a lower limit on that equipment would be a good thing (IMO), I think we are way past that point.

A way for players to attack without equipment and still gain ground would be great. Don't know what that would look like, and it would have to generate revenue but I would love to see it.

Maybe the option to attack with/without equipment, and doing so activates/deactivates the defender's equipment. Perhaps with each offering different levels of loot or conflict points, but with battles still counting towards events and conflicts.

EDIT:

Re matching I think this is broken and difference in equipment level should play a part in the reward offered, if not the matchmaking formula. I don't think there is enough of a player base to match on equipment level right now.
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Plagueis
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1395

Re: An Armoury Free planet

Post#27 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 6:52 pm

I started playing and was involved in the original forum (different name back then) before kessen had his super shot and well before squad wars. The old debates were general focused on rebel med droids and e at-at + mhcs being OP.


rawrebel
Commodore
Posts: 229

Re: An Armoury Free planet

Post#28 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:33 pm

Plagueis wrote:I started playing and was involved in the original forum (different name back then) before kessen had his super shot and well before squad wars. The old debates were general focused on rebel med droids and e at-at + mhcs being OP.

Well...many things have changed since then,now imps also have Kessen (available in war reward crates too) and med so no debate point there,about Mhc...you'll make a laugh but actually i used Hail samples in a Tat war with my imp account so no rebel should complain about Mhc,hails are a fair match for them.
As Dark rebel sayed above ,a no armory planet would allow casual as hardcore players to find a common ground and have fun again,and what this game need now is more players and prevent the existing ones to leave


Plagueis
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1395

Re: An Armoury Free planet

Post#29 » Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:53 am

rawrebel wrote:
Plagueis wrote:I started playing and was involved in the original forum (different name back then) before kessen had his super shot and well before squad wars. The old debates were general focused on rebel med droids and e at-at + mhcs being OP.

Well...many things have changed since then,now imps also have Kessen (available in war reward crates too) and med so no debate point there,about Mhc...you'll make a laugh but actually i used Hail samples in a Tat war with my imp account so no rebel should complain about Mhc,hails are a fair match for them.
As Dark rebel sayed above ,a no armory planet would allow casual as hardcore players to find a common ground and have fun again,and what this game need now is more players and prevent the existing ones to leave


Some problems: Imperial astromech is a little bit worse than rebel med droids and rebel RFTs are a little bit better than imp RFTs. That would cause a fairly large imbalance on a no-armory world as most players would go to heavy + med or snipe/marksman + med build.

Juggs come back into use and are still better than reg at-at.

Rebels now have their own e at-at which will eventually be lvl 10...which they would most like use in the same manner as imps used to use e at-at & mhcs. These would be screened by heavies with med droids against recently nerfed imp RFTs that are basically useless against their primary target...Unless all the opponent deploys are med droids.

Imps would very quickly leave a no-armory planet, never to return as they would be worse off than they are right now on planets where they can use the armory. If a no-armory planet was to have any chance of working, it would require that all players have identical units, heroes and structures. There have been way too many balances that have taken place within the framework of SWC & the armory to simply take the armory out of the equation and have it remain even remotely balanced.


DarkRebel
Admiral
Posts: 933

Re: An Armoury Free planet

Post#30 » Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:19 am

Plagueis wrote:
Some problems: Imperial astromech is a little bit worse than rebel med droids ..

I stopped reading after this.
Proof please ? that IMP med is worse than rebel medic ?

AFAIK, they are identical unit (just like eATTE and eATAT).


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