A Counter For Jets/Jumps Is Needed

Please post any suggestions that could make the game more enjoyable for everyone. Feel free to also encourage Disney with praise of things you like.
Plagueis
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1395

Re: A Counter For Jets/Jumps Is Needed

Post#41 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:45 am

bob1084 wrote:This is disgusting, winning 75% of your defenses and still you complain.

Nerf the armory to 30%? Do tell, does that include completely getting rid of the GR or do you still want that crutch too?


Bob, I’m not complaining about the overall percentage as much as attacks that are nearly undefendable and require barely and skill to pull off. The point of upgrading defensive structures is to win as many defenses as possible within reason. If I and lots of other players who put so much time in effort into building up and tweaking our defenses the best they can get and lost 50% of the time overall then we would probably complain over that. Losing 75% of the time against an attack that would faceplant 75% without the use of even a single medship is a reason to complain now. The combo is far too powerful. I can win 100 times in a row on offense if I want to using jumps and t-5s and not against dev bases. I can’t say the same for defense and that’s a worthy challenge to pursue if the competition is fair and the attacker isn’t nearly guaranteed to win because they have at least one medship handy.

I don’t want to play a game that’s rigged against me and I don’t want to play one that’s too easy either. SWC is too easy on offense at level 10 specifically thanks to medships. Maybe it’s more fair at hq 9 and below because of the lack of medships and if you want to mention a “crutch”, how about one that compensates for skill and strategy by simultaneously healing an entire attack with one starship and allowing the entire attack to pass through masses of turrets without losing units? That’s a “win button”. Those things kill games. That’s why I say I don’t care if I lose on defense to a player who uses skill and strategy to earn it. And sorry to say it but defense and not offense actually drives SWC. It’s what motivates players to grind for alloy and CB for turret, wall, shield and deka upgrades. Take two bases, one with maxed credits and one with maxed alloy. Who get’s attacked immediately? The one with the alloy. Getting crushed on defense and the drive to make the situation better is what motivates players to spend crystals or rabidly chase armory equipment that’s only really useful on defense like guard reserve and int-4/tauntaun skins.

And yes, I would support EVERY armory equipment piece being nerfed to a 30% cap. I want to use other stuff in my arsenal again. As far as guard reserve goes, players with decent skill and strategy can deal with it just fine right now (dropping a WED droid in a corner isn’t hard). If you’re having trouble with guard reserve still, there are plently of rebels out there who would probably be happy to tell you how to effectively deal with it every attack. Even GR rodians aren’t the threat they used to be and I had to go to great lengths tweaking my layout to make them reasonably effective again. It’s something that the typical square shaped corner layout that most people still runs doesn’t address. It would be safe to say at least 90% of bases out there are still extremely vulnerable to having at least two waves of guard reserve dealt with by luring and/or a single fang/striker. That would’t change with a nerf either.
Last edited by Plagueis on Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:07 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Kylo
Commodore
Posts: 118

Re: A Counter For Jets/Jumps Is Needed

Post#42 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:51 am

Plagueis wrote: If I and lots of other players who put so much time in effort into buildinng up and tweaking our defenses the best they can get and lost 50% of the time, we would stop playing.
lol. be glad there are any rebels left at all.


bob1084
Commodore
Posts: 100

Re: A Counter For Jets/Jumps Is Needed

Post#43 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:13 am

Perhaps..... and this is quite the stretch here, the people attacking you put as much time and effort into upgrading their offense as you did defense!!!! Think about that! What if your level 7/8 defense gets hit by a level 10 player?!?!?!? Oh what a world we live in.

But no, you want to win every defense regardless of any skin level, attack strategy etc. and then your mind can’t come up with the fact that everyone would switch to that base exactly and no one would win!!!!

Yay defense, yay log off and don’t play! Yay yay yay


bob1084
Commodore
Posts: 100

Re: A Counter For Jets/Jumps Is Needed

Post#44 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:16 am

Hahahahahahhahahahahhahahahahahaa take two bases one maxed on credits, one maxed on alloy see which gets attack first.... hahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhhahahhahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahahahahahhahahahhahahahahhahahhahahahahhahahahahahahahhahahhahaah

Here is a stretch, perhaps, and again a huge stretch here, perhaps people got so many credits from war wins (6-8 million during the summer) that credits became borderline useless...


Hahahahahahaa thanks bud, now THAT made me chuckle


Plagueis
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1395

Re: A Counter For Jets/Jumps Is Needed

Post#45 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:17 am

Kylo wrote:
Plagueis wrote: If I and lots of other players who put so much time in effort into buildinng up and tweaking our defenses the best they can get and lost 50% of the time, we would stop playing.
lol. be glad there are any rebels left at all.


I actually changed that while you were writing your comment.

“If I and lots of other players who put so much time in effort into building up and tweaking our defenses the best they can get and lost 50% of the time overall then we would probably complain over that.”

Imps wouldn’t quit just as rebs never seem to quit no matter how much they threaten to ragequit and say stuff like “Be glad there are any rebels left at all”. Historically, devs tend to cave in and nerf imps to placate rebels to keep them around. Which rebel units have been nerfed by devs?......Now which imp units have been nerfed? Imperial astromech, guard reserve snipes, guard reserve astromechs and further back with e at-at ai. And FWIW there could be less rebels but there would still be dev bases.


bob1084
Commodore
Posts: 100

Re: A Counter For Jets/Jumps Is Needed

Post#46 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:27 am

Plagueis wrote:
Kylo wrote:
Plagueis wrote: If I and lots of other players who put so much time in effort into buildinng up and tweaking our defenses the best they can get and lost 50% of the time, we would stop playing.
lol. be glad there are any rebels left at all.


I actually changed that while you were writing your comment.

“If I and lots of other players who put so much time in effort into building up and tweaking our defenses the best they can get and lost 50% of the time overall then we would probably complain over that.”

Imps wouldn’t quit just as rebs never seem to quit no matter how much they threaten to ragequit and say stuff like “Be glad there are any rebels left at all”. Historically, devs tend to cave in and nerf imps to placate rebels to keep them around. Which rebel units have been nerfed by devs?......Now which imp units have been nerfed? Imperial astromech, guard reserve snipes, guard reserve astromechs and further back with e at-at ai. And FWIW there could be less rebels but there would still be dev bases.


Oh please do tell which update helped rebs?!?!?!?

Please please please enlighten me. Nerf to Astro mechs? Nope, that one should never have happened... take meds away from sniper GR? Nope not even close because snipers are better than van GR in every way possible (in this current meta, all vehicle meta you might be able to argue the other side, but now there isn’t a chance)

Last reply, clearly you are a different type of imp than I am used to, although that goes for the majority of imps on here. Join Line, dual faction chats, you might find that there are others that actually want this game to be good and not the complete and utter trash you recommend


Plagueis
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1395

Re: A Counter For Jets/Jumps Is Needed

Post#47 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:30 am

bob1084 wrote:Perhaps..... and this is quite the stretch here, the people attacking you put as much time and effort into upgrading their offense as you did defense!!!! Think about that! What if your level 7/8 defense gets hit by a level 10 player?!?!?!? Oh what a world we live in.

But no, you want to win every defense regardless of any skin level, attack strategy etc. and then your mind can’t come up with the fact that everyone would switch to that base exactly and no one would win!!!!

Yay defense, yay log off and don’t play! Yay yay yay


Ok, I’m not a level 7-8 player and I can’t drop down from HQ 10.

You’re talking about matchup issues which SHOULD get fixed.

How much time and effort does it take to build up level 5 skin or higher jets/jumps and medships vs. ALL of your defense?

AGAIN, FOR THE MILLIONTH TIME, I’M OK WITH LOSING ON DEFENSE TO PLAYERS WHO USE SKILL AND STRATEGY TO DO SO. SPAMMING ONE OR MORE MEDSHIPS ON A MASS OF ONE TYPE OF UNIT DOES NOT REQUIRE SKILL OR STRATEGY. END OF STORY.

And no, there is no and never will be a base that can defend against every strategy and it’s foolish to copy a base layout with the expectation that it’s going to magically stop all attackers. It doesn’t exist.

And lastly, who cares if people want to play more on defense? At least they want to play. It’s better than quitting. And if they win defenses, that means they aren’t under protection and can be attacked by more players. This prevents CNFOS for players who focus on attacking and rewards those who actually have the skill to defeat a tough defense. EX: turret gate.


Plagueis
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1395

Re: A Counter For Jets/Jumps Is Needed

Post#48 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:37 am

bob1084 wrote:
Plagueis wrote:
Kylo wrote:lol. be glad there are any rebels left at all.


I actually changed that while you were writing your comment.

“If I and lots of other players who put so much time in effort into building up and tweaking our defenses the best they can get and lost 50% of the time overall then we would probably complain over that.”

Imps wouldn’t quit just as rebs never seem to quit no matter how much they threaten to ragequit and say stuff like “Be glad there are any rebels left at all”. Historically, devs tend to cave in and nerf imps to placate rebels to keep them around. Which rebel units have been nerfed by devs?......Now which imp units have been nerfed? Imperial astromech, guard reserve snipes, guard reserve astromechs and further back with e at-at ai. And FWIW there could be less rebels but there would still be dev bases.


Oh please do tell which update helped rebs?!?!?!?

Buffed jets...

Please please please enlighten me. Nerf to Astro mechs? Nope, that one should never have happened... take meds away from sniper GR? Nope not even close because snipers are better than van GR in every way possible (in this current meta, all vehicle meta you might be able to argue the other side, but now there isn’t a chance)

Imp astromech was actually far more powerful in the first few weeks after it was introduced. I would like to say it was for a few weeks and rebels were obviously freaking out over it. Devs quickly addressed it and readjust IA stats to were they are now.

Last reply, clearly you are a different type of imp than I am used to, although that goes for the majority of imps on here. Join Line, dual faction chats, you might find that there are others that actually want this game to be good and not the complete and utter trash you recommend


You assume way too much about me. I already do all of this. I don’t speak for sub HQ 10 players though. It really is a completely different game at HQ 10. It’s also silly that you assume I want this game to be bad and say my recommendations are trash while not supplying any recommendations yourself IF you even believe there is an issue with SWC at the moment.


bob1084
Commodore
Posts: 100

Re: A Counter For Jets/Jumps Is Needed

Post#49 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:57 am

Lmao, level 7/8, so blinded by your wanting to never lose you can’t make the deduction I was talking GR/Skins for your GR (fair lol, multiple skinned options on all planets for GR, but balance!)

Simple fix, GR is bye bye, go back to 30% buffs for the already skinned units, adjust turrets and walls accordingly once data is in place to show what is working and not working. Luke- drops a jug, t2bs at cooresponding levels, fatte- buffed and drops rebs, the spider (for both sides) acts like r2d2 does for rebs, r2d2 goes back to his normal usage bc mech will actually be useful, hero ATST gets a massive boost to health and sonic/rocket modifiers to make it actually useful, Vader- throws his light saber instead of going up to turrets making him an actual ranged player, all turrets are balanced accordingly, no differences whatsoever, modifiers to each unit are posted now with no mystery, any balance update includes the coorisponding adjustment to that particular units.

Now that we got that out of the way, UC changes- points that you score will be adjusted according to the level of base you hit. Dev bases will be actual clones of commander bases. Dekas, trap placement and sc contents, hit a level 10 base with full defense etc? 2000 points, and goes down from there, no sc? 1500 points, no deks (they will be useful again) 1200, no traps, 1000.

All matchups are based on hq level FIRST, then medals from there, never to see a base that isn’t within 40k medals of you. Sorry sandbaggers it’s over.

But alas, you won’t like any of that because 1. You hate balance (don’t argue, logging off should never be a way to progress in this game) 2 you are winning 75% of your defenses with level 7/8 units and find this to be too low, 3 you again haven’t provided one update that benefitted rebs, because you can’t, you have to go back to when the Gigi heavy upgrade was introduced.


Plagueis
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1395

Re: A Counter For Jets/Jumps Is Needed

Post#50 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:51 am

bob1084 wrote:Lmao, level 7/8, so blinded by your wanting to never lose you can’t make the deduction I was talking GR/Skins for your GR (fair lol, multiple skinned options on all planets for GR, but balance!)

Simple fix, GR is bye bye, go back to 30% buffs for the already skinned units, adjust turrets and walls accordingly once data is in place to show what is working and not working. Luke- drops a jug, t2bs at cooresponding levels, fatte- buffed and drops rebs, the spider (for both sides) acts like r2d2 does for rebs, r2d2 goes back to his normal usage bc mech will actually be useful, hero ATST gets a massive boost to health and sonic/rocket modifiers to make it actually useful, Vader- throws his light saber instead of going up to turrets making him an actual ranged player, all turrets are balanced accordingly, no differences whatsoever, modifiers to each unit are posted now with no mystery, any balance update includes the coorisponding adjustment to that particular units.

Now that we got that out of the way, UC changes- points that you score will be adjusted according to the level of base you hit. Dev bases will be actual clones of commander bases. Dekas, trap placement and sc contents, hit a level 10 base with full defense etc? 2000 points, and goes down from there, no sc? 1500 points, no deks (they will be useful again) 1200, no traps, 1000.

All matchups are based on hq level FIRST, then medals from there, never to see a base that isn’t within 40k medals of you. Sorry sandbaggers it’s over.

But alas, you won’t like any of that because 1. You hate balance (don’t argue, logging off should never be a way to progress in this game) 2 you are winning 75% of your defenses with level 7/8 units and find this to be too low, 3 you again haven’t provided one update that benefitted rebs, because you can’t, you have to go back to when the Gigi heavy upgrade was introduced.


Last comment because this is going nowhere regardless of how much I break it down. Of you’re going to to say “lvl 7-8 defenses”, make it specific to guard reserve. There’s a whole different topic related to the armory (have’s and have not’s) and lvl 10’s attacking down that actually does somewhat tie into this topic as well.

I’m ok if GR went away. We don’t have it in squad wars and you know what? Squad wars is fun. But getting rid of it isn’t fair to those who put in the time, effort and $$$ into obtaining GR. A flat nerf % across the board for armory equipment is a better option as it doesn’t create an advantage for anyone and allows more units that add utility to offense and defense to be used again. Variety is a good thing.

Last off, I’ve always been very vocal for wanting balance (not perfect balance), even in this topic. I didn’t call for just the jets + meds combo being reduced in effectiveness, I called for the imp version to receive the same treatment. Jets can even keep a slight health and damage buff to compensate for rodian GR, whatever. I also don’t think SWC should be TOTALLY balanced. That goes against canon. Rebels should be the underdog to a degree. That’s part of the appeal IMO. They should also be diametrically different from the empire. Right now it’s jets and jumps. Lame. Both sides using medships on them and little to no strategy to win. Lamer.

What you aren’t grasping here it that I consider a 75% defensive ratio to be fine. I’m not asking to make my defense win 100% of the time against all attacks nor do I ever expect or want that to happen because this game should have some sort of challenge to it. When it loses that challenge there’s no point in playing it. That’s where I got with using buffed jumps and T-5s. I switched to something else because a guaranteed win is BORING. Why play if I know I will win EVERYTIME? What I AM saying is that no attack should be nearly impossible to stop and no, i’m not winning 75% of the time against jets + meds. As I said before, 90% of the time my base goes against them , I lose which is a vastly higher ratio than any other attack my base sees and is regardless of any changes I can make to my defenses (don’t give me any crap about turret combos, GR choices or SC composition). I had to change my layout to attract as many players who are NOT using this combo as possible to maintain that 75% ratio. The bulk of attacks I see are 17+ jets and no medships. Sometimes they win, most of the time they don’t. If I didn’t make these changes and were attacked by nothing but jets + medships I probably would have a defensive ratio of 10%.


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