A Counter For Jets/Jumps Is Needed

Please post any suggestions that could make the game more enjoyable for everyone. Feel free to also encourage Disney with praise of things you like.
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spootieho
Captain
Posts: 93

Re: A counter for jets/jumps is needed

Post#21 » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:33 pm

Perhaps they can introduce a new airship designed for taking out jumps/jets that everyone can get excited about. Make the air support take 20 capacity or something to limit the amount that someone can build.

Fortunately, rarely do I hit a base that has units in their SC...

Until then, get creative... I'll be visiting your HQ10 base with my HQ7 base and some jetpacks from my squad center.


Plagueis
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1226

Re: A counter for jets/jumps is needed

Post#22 » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:02 pm

spootieho wrote:Perhaps they can introduce a new airship designed for taking out jumps/jets that everyone can get excited about. Make the air support take 20 capacity or something to limit the amount that someone can build.

Fortunately, rarely do I hit a base that has units in their SC...

Until then, get creative... I'll be visiting your HQ10 base with my HQ7 base and some jetpacks from my squad center.


Sounds good to me. Any new anti-flyer unit would be awesome to play around with, especially if it were immune to airstrike like jets/jumps. Maybe some sort of obscure tie variant for imps and snow/dirt/forest or whatever speeder for rebels. And if you find my base I’ll be sure to revenge with my buffs off.


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Midge
Admiral
Posts: 777

Re: A counter for jets/jumps is needed

Post#23 » Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:27 am

Plagueis wrote:
Midge wrote:
Plagueis wrote:
We have to recognize that SWC is content-driven to fully understand revenue. Buffed Jets/jumps were introduced making offense incredibly easy. After that, what did we get for new content? Fathier riders, worthless spider droid heros and even more worthless demolition droids. Guard reserve was the only worthwhile defensive upgrade to chase but even that aspect is pathetically easy to counter (even rodians) by the average lvl 10 player. Why chase more frags for something that won’t make a diffence? Is lvl 9 storm trooper GR equipment THAT much better than a lvl 8? Lol, no. IMO it’s not worth the effort spending days grinding for a nearly meaningless upgrade. Events are being rehashed, many players have the basic units maxed already and frankly, who’s going to freak out and chase an ongidae oppressor or WED droid? NO ONE is going to spend crystals on this trash. Maybe the currently low revenue is because the game is BORING and we’re been getting garbage content and not some difference between ease of offense vs defense.


Per usual, it all flew over your head. You CLAIM that everyone is just rolling on offense. In general, that is not the case. On a large scale, that is not CLOSE to the case. That is why revenues are down. Not because people aren't chasing frags, because people ARE NOT PLAYING. They log off. Wait for defends. Ride protections. Maybe hit once or twice a day max.

I am not talking about rinkydinks. I am talking about long time players that don't want to deal with the shit spewing out of GRs. So, keep talking about how easy offense is all you like, the numbers dwindling are because of EXACTLY the opposite.


Sorry but your claims are purely anecdotal. Provide some actual stats of players leaving because they can’t win on offense from a refutable source and I’ll agree with you. Historically, I get people on this forum who swear up and down that if they don’t win most of the time the entire player base will quit. I guarantee someone will say this today if I mention buffing defense in the slightest bit. But they must be winning right now because the game is still going. Not as strong as before but we are getting really bad new content and that has to be considered a factor unless everyone wants demolition droids THAT bad but can’t win on offense and decide to quit for that reason only, lol. Come to think of it, I was the only person on this forum who was excited about unlocking fathier riders and trying to make them work somehow despite how terrible and useless they are. But of course new content like fathier riders makes us all want to play more SWC..Yay!!!

Remember “turret gate” when every rebel threatened to rage quit and we heard the same nonsense talk of people leaving in droves YET they stuck around. You can’t tell me it’s any harder on offense now then it was during that time. I had over 135 defensive wins and 4 offensive wins in an Er’kit conflict like many other imps and rebels STILL didn’t quit. I’m not buying any talk of it being hard for rebels to win now with the current buffs even if they’re low level because the skip button still exists. As a matter of fact, I use it. So I think you must be talking about the most casual players imaginable or sub level 9 guys who are way behind on the crate chase and typically get matched up against 10’s or just got bored with the game because I WILL get attacked 5 minutes after logging off consistently by a 10 on any planet and not because my base is rediculously easy or whatever. There absolutely is a large enough base of players who have decent enough skins to have no issue against GR. I know because I revenge many of these bases and often they are not maxed 10’s. And if it were true that masses of rebels have “given up” because it’s so hard to win, UC in conflicts wouldn’t be so high. If I’m wrong, look at tat and honestly tell me all of those rebels are earning UC by attacking 2-4 times a day and earning defensive wins.


JFC you are an idiot. I swear sometimes.

It is not ANECDOTAL ... the numbers posted in a very good thread (viewtopic.php?f=31&t=21650) right here on THIS fucking site show the number of players leaving on BOTH sides. The revenue numbers (which you can find at any well-known APP revenue site) are down. That is NOT anecdotal. That is fact.

BTW, you didn't mean refutable source, you meant irrefutable. A refutable source is, well, crap. Maybe you meant reputable? But it is clear that you don't count anything that agrees with you as reputable.

Turret Gate DID drive away players in droves which is why they adjusted so largely and somewhat quickly. It CERTAINLY was more difficult to attack then, and people completely stopped, for the most part, driving revenues down by a huge margin only seen again in the difference from January to February this year.

There are max rebels quitting. Hell, there are max Imps quitting. The game has become far too much of a grind offensively for people who don't want to crystal every load. You can use your getting hit within 5 minutes of logging off as an example (which, by the way, is very much the definition of anecdotal) of this not being the case, but it simply is proof in the numbers that ARE available and the large chat community that is seeing longtime players give up after so many let downs.

Using Tat as an example is stupid as shit, those are people hitting dev bases over and over again with crap loadouts because it is the only way they can play without needing full air.

Of course, none of this matters to you. YOU can't get a defend (in an era when everyone is literally racking up hundreds of them) so YOU want offense nerfed, despite the fact that all evidence (and this is across hundreds of tower defense games over the years) shows that difficult attacking kills games like these. The fact that YOU only focus on YOU and what happens when YOU log off and when YOU revenge and then broaden it to the larger scope of the game is, in fact, about as anecdotal as it gets.

Bless Spock's heart, he seems to have a soft spot for rescue puppies.

EDIT: All that aside, one thing we can certainly agree on is the new content has been crap for a while and that has certainly not helped things.
Leader of The Mob Syndicate

Home of TheMidnightMob, TheMorningMob and TheMobWantsYou

Level X Rebel : 100k+ Medals : Joined the Rebellion 12/28/2015


Plagueis
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1226

Re: A counter for jets/jumps is needed

Post#24 » Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:12 am

Midge wrote:
Plagueis wrote:
Midge wrote:
Per usual, it all flew over your head. You CLAIM that everyone is just rolling on offense. In general, that is not the case. On a large scale, that is not CLOSE to the case. That is why revenues are down. Not because people aren't chasing frags, because people ARE NOT PLAYING. They log off. Wait for defends. Ride protections. Maybe hit once or twice a day max.

I am not talking about rinkydinks. I am talking about long time players that don't want to deal with the shit spewing out of GRs. So, keep talking about how easy offense is all you like, the numbers dwindling are because of EXACTLY the opposite.


Sorry but your claims are purely anecdotal. Provide some actual stats of players leaving because they can’t win on offense from a refutable source and I’ll agree with you. Historically, I get people on this forum who swear up and down that if they don’t win most of the time the entire player base will quit. I guarantee someone will say this today if I mention buffing defense in the slightest bit. But they must be winning right now because the game is still going. Not as strong as before but we are getting really bad new content and that has to be considered a factor unless everyone wants demolition droids THAT bad but can’t win on offense and decide to quit for that reason only, lol. Come to think of it, I was the only person on this forum who was excited about unlocking fathier riders and trying to make them work somehow despite how terrible and useless they are. But of course new content like fathier riders makes us all want to play more SWC..Yay!!!

Remember “turret gate” when every rebel threatened to rage quit and we heard the same nonsense talk of people leaving in droves YET they stuck around. You can’t tell me it’s any harder on offense now then it was during that time. I had over 135 defensive wins and 4 offensive wins in an Er’kit conflict like many other imps and rebels STILL didn’t quit. I’m not buying any talk of it being hard for rebels to win now with the current buffs even if they’re low level because the skip button still exists. As a matter of fact, I use it. So I think you must be talking about the most casual players imaginable or sub level 9 guys who are way behind on the crate chase and typically get matched up against 10’s or just got bored with the game because I WILL get attacked 5 minutes after logging off consistently by a 10 on any planet and not because my base is rediculously easy or whatever. There absolutely is a large enough base of players who have decent enough skins to have no issue against GR. I know because I revenge many of these bases and often they are not maxed 10’s. And if it were true that masses of rebels have “given up” because it’s so hard to win, UC in conflicts wouldn’t be so high. If I’m wrong, look at tat and honestly tell me all of those rebels are earning UC by attacking 2-4 times a day and earning defensive wins.


JFC you are an idiot. I swear sometimes.

It is not ANECDOTAL ... the numbers posted in a very good thread (viewtopic.php?f=31&t=21650) right here on THIS fucking site show the number of players leaving on BOTH sides. The revenue numbers (which you can find at any well-known APP revenue site) are down. That is NOT anecdotal. That is fact.

BTW, you didn't mean refutable source, you meant irrefutable. A refutable source is, well, crap. Maybe you meant reputable? But it is clear that you don't count anything that agrees with you as reputable.

Turret Gate DID drive away players in droves which is why they adjusted so largely and somewhat quickly. It CERTAINLY was more difficult to attack then, and people completely stopped, for the most part, driving revenues down by a huge margin only seen again in the difference from January to February this year.

There are max rebels quitting. Hell, there are max Imps quitting. The game has become far too much of a grind offensively for people who don't want to crystal every load. You can use your getting hit within 5 minutes of logging off as an example (which, by the way, is very much the definition of anecdotal) of this not being the case, but it simply is proof in the numbers that ARE available and the large chat community that is seeing longtime players give up after so many let downs.

Using Tat as an example is stupid as shit, those are people hitting dev bases over and over again with crap loadouts because it is the only way they can play without needing full air.

Of course, none of this matters to you. YOU can't get a defend (in an era when everyone is literally racking up hundreds of them) so YOU want offense nerfed, despite the fact that all evidence (and this is across hundreds of tower defense games over the years) shows that difficult attacking kills games like these. The fact that YOU only focus on YOU and what happens when YOU log off and when YOU revenge and then broaden it to the larger scope of the game is, in fact, about as anecdotal as it gets.

Bless Spock's heart, he seems to have a soft spot for rescue puppies.

EDIT: All that aside, one thing we can certainly agree on is the new content has been crap for a while and that has certainly not helped things.


Please don’t call me an idiot when you obviously don’t read my comments. First off, I didn’t say they WEREN’T leaving in general. I said there was no evidence they were leaving because they couldn’t win. During turret gate many people stopped attacking in protest for a few weeks... until the nerf hammer came down and they came right back. They were still actively involved in SWC because they were complaining on the forum through those weeks and everyone knew a nerf was coming. My point Is, is the comparable drop in revenue now comparable to the reason back then? I don’t think so. Not with both factions having the most powerful offensive unit in the game. Not even against GR.

Secondly, pointing at stats of players leaving doesn’t say WHY they are leaving. It just gives the numbers that ARE leaving. This is where your claims of people leaving because they can’t win become anecdotal. You’ll need a player survey for that one.

Thirdly, It’s not just tat. Rebels are winning on other planets too. I move around to get away from some of them, lol. And I thought rebels NEVER got dev bases to work with...

Fourthly, autocorrect sucks. “irrefutable” is the correct word in this case. My bad.

Fifthly, I actually defend pretty well. Maybe as good as it’s going to get. I’ve noted this recently but maybe you didn’t read that post of many of my other ones that put my position on this into context. IMO the real issue right now is jets and jumps receiving healing from medships. NOT offense as a whole. I started a thread on this. I’ll go out on a limb and say I’ve never been for a blanket offensive nerf but I have for supported nerfing the armory back to 30% across the board. This would include defensive armory equipment of course. Historically, I’ve said that i’m ok with losing defenses from time to time if that player uses good strategy and earns it. Spamming 1 type of unit followed by 1 type of starship isn’t very stategic and is often a guaranteed win for either faction. It doesn’t seem very fair that even a well crafted defense has no chance against only this specific attack. So tell me why it doesn’t deserve an effective counter to it? It’s that cheesiness that also factors into driving people away. Why play a game when you know you’re going to win everytime you attack, even if it’s only when your air is ready? Hunt CB, log, hunt cb, log, hunt cb, log. Sound familiar? This is the game now, especially when there is nothing really good to chase in UC and the new conflict system rewards every 2 hours for the bonus crate.

Lastly, why does it seen like I am the one who’s being respectful yet gets called names in this forum? Honestly, when have I come out and called anyone here names or put anyone down for having a differing opinion from my own? I don’t call anyone bad players or imply they are a nuisance in their squad. Not even you Midge.


User avatar
Midge
Admiral
Posts: 777

Re: A counter for jets/jumps is needed

Post#25 » Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:29 am

Plagueis wrote:
Lastly, why does it seen like I am the one who’s being respectful yet gets called names in this forum? Honestly, when have I come out and called anyone here names or put anyone down for having a differing opinion from my own? I don’t call anyone bad players or imply they are a nuisance in their squad. Not even you Midge.


Meh ... when you're right ... you're right. That was out of line and I apologize.
Leader of The Mob Syndicate

Home of TheMidnightMob, TheMorningMob and TheMobWantsYou

Level X Rebel : 100k+ Medals : Joined the Rebellion 12/28/2015


Plagueis
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1226

Re: A counter for jets/jumps is needed

Post#26 » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:58 pm

Midge wrote:
Plagueis wrote:
Lastly, why does it seen like I am the one who’s being respectful yet gets called names in this forum? Honestly, when have I come out and called anyone here names or put anyone down for having a differing opinion from my own? I don’t call anyone bad players or imply they are a nuisance in their squad. Not even you Midge.


Meh ... when you're right ... you're right. That was out of line and I apologize.


Apology accepted. I also apologize if I come off a little controversial and possibly and unintentionally “trollish” at times. I respect your comments on this forum as very often you are correct as well. The thing is, I actually want everyone to have fun playing this game even if it means I have to lose more. That’s cool as long as it’s through using legitimate strategy and not something solely based on how high a player’s armory skin is and how powerful their units become through synergy by spamming a starship every 2 hours or immediately after burning crystals. This type of stuff is out of reach for all but the highest level players in the game. So while we don’t always agree (or rarely), I think we do on certain topics such as the armory being detrimental to gameplay for the majority of SWC players. “Haves and have nots” is a bad thing for gameplay but great for disney in the short term. As funny as it sounds, we have the same end desire. To make this game not suck as bad as it does now and to get more players to play it.


bob1084
Captain
Posts: 61

Re: A counter for jets/jumps is needed

Post#27 » Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:58 am

Plagueis wrote:
Midge wrote:
Plagueis wrote:
Lastly, why does it seen like I am the one who’s being respectful yet gets called names in this forum? Honestly, when have I come out and called anyone here names or put anyone down for having a differing opinion from my own? I don’t call anyone bad players or imply they are a nuisance in their squad. Not even you Midge.


Meh ... when you're right ... you're right. That was out of line and I apologize.


Apology accepted. I also apologize if I come off a little controversial and possibly and unintentionally “trollish” at times. I respect your comments on this forum as very often you are correct as well. The thing is, I actually want everyone to have fun playing this game even if it means I have to lose more. That’s cool as long as it’s through using legitimate strategy and not something solely based on how high a player’s armory skin is and how powerful their units become through synergy by spamming a starship every 2 hours or immediately after burning crystals. This type of stuff is out of reach for all but the highest level players in the game. So while we don’t always agree (or rarely), I think we do on certain topics such as the armory being detrimental to gameplay for the majority of SWC players. “Haves and have nots” is a bad thing for gameplay but great for disney in the short term. As funny as it sounds, we have the same end desire. To make this game not suck as bad as it does now and to get more players to play it.


And this was different than 2 tie A’s to backside shields with the e@@ snipe? Same with jug/awings, the problem now vs then was using that “strategy” wasn’t imperative to winning. It comes off as beyond trolling when you bring this crap up. You have now made some of the most insane “suggestions” to this game I have ever seen,

“make kessen 30 min cooktime” honestly why don’t you just say “if you don’t have high level jets then quit”

“Make healships less effective or have a turret that disables healing or a unit that does” why don’t you just say “I literally don’t want to lose a defense ever, unless you have high level skins”

I honestly don’t know what is worse, the fact that you know that kessen is the only usable hero for for lower level skinned rebs thereby guaranteeing you more wins on defense/more easily obtained uc (which no one on the imp side will ever admit is the #1 problem in this game and has been since before the GR was introduced)

OR

Take away/nerf/develop a counter to someone using full air, full sc, and full transports of the most OP unit in the game (by very definition this CANT BE OP WHEN THAT MUCH ANCILLARY UC IS NEEDED TO SUPPORT IT, MY WORD IS THIS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND).

You want OP?!?!?!? Here’s OP, me using sand rebels at level 1 with lugs and meds to roll any base I came acrossed, NO AIR, NO SC, NO HERO. The big difference was rebs and imps actually agreed that this sucked, because both had it so ridiculously easy, (in Eric Cartmans voice from South Park) I wonder why one side would be so frustrated at this point, while the other side see’s very little wrong with balance issues? Surely there must be a reason? If only my limited mind could think of the reason why one side would be so frustrated? Hm, it may come to me at some point.

Again....

Slowly....


ITS NOT OP IF YOU NEED TO USE ALL AIR AND SC

Again....

Lowercase....

it’s not op if you need to use all air and sc

Stop..... before you reply..... think, take 10 deep breaths, stop again, don’t touch the keyboard, log out, go to the gym, get a workout in, stop, again don’t touch the keyboard, take a shower you stink, great workout, now slowly, stop again, drink protein, now slowly come to your phone or device and think before you type, I mean spend some time in deep thought, type something out but remember the great 21st century philosopher who once said “don’t press send”

Thank you Herm,

Gracias de Herman


User avatar
AeroSith
Captain
Posts: 94

Re: A Counter For Jets/Jumps Is Needed

Post#28 » Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:53 am

All we need to counter the Jumps is to to buff the Rodians and have them added to the barracks along with rapid fire capabilities, so we can donate them to our low lever players SC. I bet we won't see to much jumps after that.
I hope this did not trigger or rebel friends. :D
Image
We have bacon and Rodian snipers!
And we also hate sand!


User avatar
erfs
Captain
Posts: 81

Re: A Counter For Jets/Jumps Is Needed

Post#29 » Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:52 pm

Not at all - I definitely agree that adding anti-jump capabilities (us Rebels use Sullust Snipers btw) would be great for the Rebels.

;-)

Finally got the anti-infantry sniper GR for my Imp base and that in combination with the Rodian skin and Snipers in the SC + buffet rapid fires and rocket turrets has greatly improved my defenses against any troops, even Jetpack swarms. Not many Rebels managed to get 50+ % since then. Daily defense is also a breeze now. Wish I had this for my Rebel base.


Plagueis
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1226

Re: A counter for jets/jumps is needed

Post#30 » Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:53 pm

bob1084 wrote:
Plagueis wrote:
Midge wrote:
Meh ... when you're right ... you're right. That was out of line and I apologize.


Apology accepted. I also apologize if I come off a little controversial and possibly and unintentionally “trollish” at times. I respect your comments on this forum as very often you are correct as well. The thing is, I actually want everyone to have fun playing this game even if it means I have to lose more. That’s cool as long as it’s through using legitimate strategy and not something solely based on how high a player’s armory skin is and how powerful their units become through synergy by spamming a starship every 2 hours or immediately after burning crystals. This type of stuff is out of reach for all but the highest level players in the game. So while we don’t always agree (or rarely), I think we do on certain topics such as the armory being detrimental to gameplay for the majority of SWC players. “Haves and have nots” is a bad thing for gameplay but great for disney in the short term. As funny as it sounds, we have the same end desire. To make this game not suck as bad as it does now and to get more players to play it.


And this was different than 2 tie A’s to backside shields with the e@@ snipe? Same with jug/awings, the problem now vs then was using that “strategy” wasn’t imperative to winning. It comes off as beyond trolling when you bring this crap up. You have now made some of the most insane “suggestions” to this game I have ever seen,

“make kessen 30 min cooktime” honestly why don’t you just say “if you don’t have high level jets then quit”

“Make healships less effective or have a turret that disables healing or a unit that does” why don’t you just say “I literally don’t want to lose a defense ever, unless you have high level skins”

I honestly don’t know what is worse, the fact that you know that kessen is the only usable hero for for lower level skinned rebs thereby guaranteeing you more wins on defense/more easily obtained uc (which no one on the imp side will ever admit is the #1 problem in this game and has been since before the GR was introduced)

OR

Take away/nerf/develop a counter to someone using full air, full sc, and full transports of the most OP unit in the game (by very definition this CANT BE OP WHEN THAT MUCH ANCILLARY UC IS NEEDED TO SUPPORT IT, MY WORD IS THIS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND).

You want OP?!?!?!? Here’s OP, me using sand rebels at level 1 with lugs and meds to roll any base I came acrossed, NO AIR, NO SC, NO HERO. The big difference was rebs and imps actually agreed that this sucked, because both had it so ridiculously easy, (in Eric Cartmans voice from South Park) I wonder why one side would be so frustrated at this point, while the other side see’s very little wrong with balance issues? Surely there must be a reason? If only my limited mind could think of the reason why one side would be so frustrated? Hm, it may come to me at some point.

Again....

Slowly....


ITS NOT OP IF YOU NEED TO USE ALL AIR AND SC

Again....

Lowercase....

it’s not op if you need to use all air and sc

Stop..... before you reply..... think, take 10 deep breaths, stop again, don’t touch the keyboard, log out, go to the gym, get a workout in, stop, again don’t touch the keyboard, take a shower you stink, great workout, now slowly, stop again, drink protein, now slowly come to your phone or device and think before you type, I mean spend some time in deep thought, type something out but remember the great 21st century philosopher who once said “don’t press send”

Thank you Herm,

Gracias de Herman


I don’t want to rant on this much more but there is a big difference between the power of kessen or starship sniping vs. using flyers with medships.

I’ve had my SC sniped more times than I can estimate and still won many of those defenses because I have other aspects of my defense that at least have a chance at stopping the attack afterwards. While as cheesy as kessen is, SC sniping with him isn’t close to a guaranteed win unless a player’s base is solely dependent on the SC. Which many decently constructed bases aren’t. If kessen or a-wings + x-wings gets my SC, and my GR isn’t lured correctly and several times, rodians will kill many of the jets and my buffed RFTs will get the rest. Kessen is still absolutely OP though and deserves a 30 min cook time to be at least remotely on-par with starship sniping cook time. I have to rank kessen sniping higher on the “need to nerf” list because waiting only 10 minutes vs. over an hour to starship snipe is OP.

Now Flyer’s + meds can very easily overpower SC troops, turrets, guard reserve, etc. Even my own, taking my average losses from in the low 40% range immediately to high 80% losses or full wipes. That doesn’t happen with kessen or starship snipes and this is with a defense that’s tailored to deal with GR luring and buffed jets. That’s because flyers + meds essentially do the same thing as kessen and starship sniping in a sense (neutralize the SC). BUT, they also allow a player to completely neuter the rest of a defense with a 20 minute or so wait in between attacks, which is roughly the time it takes to train a single medship (especially against bases with clustered turrets that would repel everything else). Keep in mind, when I was using vader + jumps, I was using two t-5s on average per attack but often one t-5 was plenty to get vader and my jumps past the inital line of turrets and essentially “gut” the base from the inside out. Again, a full starship loadout IS NOT needed in many cases. IMO this is a WIN BUTTON every 20 minutes and especially every hour and a half. It’s barely a “strategy” and not fair to everyone, including the bases that I attacked with it. No pvp game should have “God Mode”.

Lastly, if I were “trolling” people, I wouldn’t provide evidence that while is from my own experience, has also been also cited by other players on this forum. I would just say “jets and medships are too powerful and need to be nerfed” and leave it at that, knowing people would freak out. I don’t and this is why my posts are often so long.


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