Rebel Barrack Vangard vs Empire Rodian Recon Sharpshooter is no contest

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ObiWanKenobi2016
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Posts: 770

Re: Rebel Barrack Vangard vs Empire Rodian Recon Sharpshooter is no contest

Post#21 » Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:43 am

Spirit wrote:Rebs and Imps should not have the same, identical troops as that was never what Star Wars was about. Each side should have very different troops with their own charecteristics.


We're going to disagree on this, my friend. The different stats, whether for jets/jumps, GR sniper/vanguard or GR Bantha/Dewback or otherwise have split the community, made this forum (at times) a toxic place, and I have no doubt they contributed to this game's decline.

I think the recent trend towards evening out the faction differences has been a very positive development, if not too little too late. As I keep on saying, this is a PvP game, and it needs both sides to flourish for it to be as successful as it can be. Perceived imbalance discourages the player base from the (perceived or otherwise) disadvantaged faction from continuing.
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Plagueis
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Posts: 1379

Re: Rebel Barrack Vangard vs Empire Rodian Recon Sharpshooter is no contest

Post#22 » Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:12 am

TNT wrote:
Plagueis wrote:As I see it, attackers have the option of deploying jets to attack buildings out of range of burst turrets and even once they get into range of the bursts, they still have time to destroy another building or two before getting nuked. Attackers have the choice of where to apply that damage and that’s an advantage. Also, everyone says this everytime there’s a buff or nerf: screen your stuff. If a turret does additional damage to a certain unit, put something else in between that unit and the turret that doesn’t match the damage modifier or has better range than the turret. See? No additional 100% buff is needed and rebels can still get around that additional 40%. Just gotta be smart.



Let's just be clear on one thing:

Rodian Guard Reserve:
Two shots standard troopers with lvl9 skins.
One clips heavy troopers with lvl7 skins.
Two shots hails.
Two shots medics.
One shots Banthas.
One shots Wookies. (which Burst turrets have a multiplier against)
One shots Pathfinders.
One shots Pilots.
One shots Oppressors (lol, who even uses those things).
Two shots Vanguards.
One clips Sharpshooters. (I don't know about sullustans)
Needs about 2-3 clips for a jet with lvl6 skins.
Takes a pretty long time taking out a TX, which the rodians ignore until everything else is dead so everyone can help.

All units are outranged by at least 3 spaces. Heavies only have 15 speed so they can't close the gap before getting multiple clips in their face.
All Snipers/Sharpshooters have that weird thing going on that once they start shooting they keep shooting and apparently don't need time to acquire a new target.

You spawn 4 of those guys after 5 seconds, and another 4 after 30 seconds and another 4 after 30 more seconds and that's ignoring the SC.

From that list, please tell me which units I can use to screen?

Meanwhile burst turrets have a bonus against bruiser units (which the TX is) and they have longer range than the rebel version of the TX.

Lastly, the units you are struggling with on offense are also spawning. (You know including, the inferior to Dewbacks, Banthas.)
You never hear rebels about that last thing.

No one in my Squad plays PVP unless they really need to and even then it's mostly on Hoth there days, because the endless samey bases filled with Rodians aren't fun.


Since I was talking about screening against burst turrets and not rodians, which you should be luring anyways, you can use luke, ithorians, pigs, TXs, juggs, regs or anyrhing really if it buys enough time to destroy the turret. It’s all about timing and placement. At level 10 you can start using a landseer or two to overcome a mass of bursts in most cases. I have maxed heatsinks on my bursts and level 9 GR snipes with lvl 8 rodian skins. Rebels still find a way. They don’t just spam jets at the beginning of the attack and expect a win though. There is some strategy involved, as there should be. There are plenty of good rebel players out there who know how to do this and are happy to share that information.


TNT
Major General
Posts: 367

Re: Rebel Barrack Vangard vs Empire Rodian Recon Sharpshooter is no contest

Post#23 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:58 am

Plagueis wrote:Since I was talking about screening against burst turrets and not rodians, which you should be luring anyways, you can use luke, ithorians, pigs, TXs, juggs, regs or anyrhing really if it buys enough time to destroy the turret. It’s all about timing and placement. At level 10 you can start using a landseer or two to overcome a mass of bursts in most cases. I have maxed heatsinks on my bursts and level 9 GR snipes with lvl 8 rodian skins. Rebels still find a way. They don’t just spam jets at the beginning of the attack and expect a win though. There is some strategy involved, as there should be. There are plenty of good rebel players out there who know how to do this and are happy to share that information.

The point I'm trying to make is that in order to screen against the turrets those screen units need to be alive. Which they can't be if Rodian Snipers shoot them.

Stop advising people to use lvl10 units as a solution. What are the lvl6-9 going to do?

I am a succesfull attacker (lvl9) even against lvl10 bases despite my lack of medships, I know what those rebels use.

Search your feelings you know it to be true. Of my list of units in my previous post. Are any of the units that I mention getting one shot/clipped a mainstay in the armies? (Though hails have been making a comeback)
Nope. There is no complex strategy Plageuis.
Join the Rebel3Squad.
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User avatar
erfs
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Posts: 130

Re: Rebel Barrack Vangard vs Empire Rodian Recon Sharpshooter is no contest

Post#24 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:34 am

darthdoodie wrote:Rebels do not need GR sharps
Imp sniper GR was near undefeatable when it first came out. Now it is watered down to the point of being relatively easily to deal with
Buffed burst turrets and SC troops pose a much larger threat to rebel attacks than GR snipers, even when rodian skinned.


Well, Rodian skinned GR snipers combined with snipers in my SC are still doing a mighty fine job for my Imp base, particularly during HD, where it's an easy bronzium crate every time, regardless of the type of attack.

That is not to say that PVP attackers cannot take them out and win, but to get 100% usually requires a higher level attacker (on my L8 Imp base) with skill. And if you are not in the high top elite spheres, this does not happen that often.

The base layout for the main imp base was done by my then six year old. Actually, it's pretty nice, so I left it as is with mini changes.

For my Rebel base, I (had to) put much more consideration into the layout as I was sick of being wiped out all the time. Not saying it's perfect or anywhere near it but it works OKish (and better than before).

Another advantage is that you can use the same skin on highly effective GR + SC troops.

For my rebel bases, if I want to buff my SC troops and GR troops, I need to use two elite buff slots.

It's really the many little advantages the sniper GR offers combined that makes it really worthwhile to have.


Plagueis
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1379

Re: Rebel Barrack Vangard vs Empire Rodian Recon Sharpshooter is no contest

Post#25 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:50 am

TNT wrote:
Plagueis wrote:Since I was talking about screening against burst turrets and not rodians, which you should be luring anyways, you can use luke, ithorians, pigs, TXs, juggs, regs or anyrhing really if it buys enough time to destroy the turret. It’s all about timing and placement. At level 10 you can start using a landseer or two to overcome a mass of bursts in most cases. I have maxed heatsinks on my bursts and level 9 GR snipes with lvl 8 rodian skins. Rebels still find a way. They don’t just spam jets at the beginning of the attack and expect a win though. There is some strategy involved, as there should be. There are plenty of good rebel players out there who know how to do this and are happy to share that information.

The point I'm trying to make is that in order to screen against the turrets those screen units need to be alive. Which they can't be if Rodian Snipers shoot them.

Stop advising people to use lvl10 units as a solution. What are the lvl6-9 going to do?

I am a succesfull attacker (lvl9) even against lvl10 bases despite my lack of medships, I know what those rebels use.

Search your feelings you know it to be true. Of my list of units in my previous post. Are any of the units that I mention getting one shot/clipped a mainstay in the armies? (Though hails have been making a comeback)
Nope. There is no complex strategy Plageuis.


Rodians will still go after bait in the corner regardless of level. After that, you have time to go after the barracks and destroy them without worrying about your screening units being shot by rodians. It’s not a complicated strategy. It just means not dumping all of your stuff in one spot and expecting them to plow through rodians as many rebels still try and fail to do. Bumrush against rodians = loss. Those who lure tend to win and good players often wait at least 30 seconds into a battle before deploying any jets.


rawrebel
Commodore
Posts: 204

Re: Rebel Barrack Vangard vs Empire Rodian Recon Sharpshooter is no contest

Post#26 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:49 am

Plagueis wrote:
TNT wrote:
Plagueis wrote:Since I was talking about screening against burst turrets and not rodians, which you should be luring anyways, you can use luke, ithorians, pigs, TXs, juggs, regs or anyrhing really if it buys enough time to destroy the turret. It’s all about timing and placement. At level 10 you can start using a landseer or two to overcome a mass of bursts in most cases. I have maxed heatsinks on my bursts and level 9 GR snipes with lvl 8 rodian skins. Rebels still find a way. They don’t just spam jets at the beginning of the attack and expect a win though. There is some strategy involved, as there should be. There are plenty of good rebel players out there who know how to do this and are happy to share that information.

The point I'm trying to make is that in order to screen against the turrets those screen units need to be alive. Which they can't be if Rodian Snipers shoot them.

Stop advising people to use lvl10 units as a solution. What are the lvl6-9 going to do?

I am a succesfull attacker (lvl9) even against lvl10 bases despite my lack of medships, I know what those rebels use.

Search your feelings you know it to be true. Of my list of units in my previous post. Are any of the units that I mention getting one shot/clipped a mainstay in the armies? (Though hails have been making a comeback)
Nope. There is no complex strategy Plageuis.


Rodians will still go after bait in the corner regardless of level. After that, you have time to go after the barracks and destroy them without worrying about your screening units being shot by rodians. It’s not a complicated strategy. It just means not dumping all of your stuff in one spot and expecting them to plow through rodians as many rebels still try and fail to do. Bumrush against rodians = loss. Those who lure tend to win and good players often wait at least 30 seconds into a battle before deploying any jets.

Theory is one thing,practice is a totaly differrent thing.
You just contradicted your self!
Attacker CAN'T wait 30 secs till rodians go for bait,the second wave came after 30/40 secs and no army can whipe half base in 10/15 seconds! Even if attacker wait less still can't go too far until second wave came out ,and don't forget about SC full of lv10 rodians that are even worst then Gr ones.
Baiting work.on lower levels,untill gr get to.lv 5/6 then they become really OP when skinned.
Don't teach the baker how to.make cookies,try making them first


Plagueis
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1379

Re: Rebel Barrack Vangard vs Empire Rodian Recon Sharpshooter is no contest

Post#27 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:42 pm

rawrebel wrote:
Plagueis wrote:
TNT wrote:The point I'm trying to make is that in order to screen against the turrets those screen units need to be alive. Which they can't be if Rodian Snipers shoot them.

Stop advising people to use lvl10 units as a solution. What are the lvl6-9 going to do?

I am a succesfull attacker (lvl9) even against lvl10 bases despite my lack of medships, I know what those rebels use.

Search your feelings you know it to be true. Of my list of units in my previous post. Are any of the units that I mention getting one shot/clipped a mainstay in the armies? (Though hails have been making a comeback)
Nope. There is no complex strategy Plageuis.


Rodians will still go after bait in the corner regardless of level. After that, you have time to go after the barracks and destroy them without worrying about your screening units being shot by rodians. It’s not a complicated strategy. It just means not dumping all of your stuff in one spot and expecting them to plow through rodians as many rebels still try and fail to do. Bumrush against rodians = loss. Those who lure tend to win and good players often wait at least 30 seconds into a battle before deploying any jets.

Theory is one thing,practice is a totaly differrent thing.
You just contradicted your self!
Attacker CAN'T wait 30 secs till rodians go for bait,the second wave came after 30/40 secs and no army can whipe half base in 10/15 seconds! Even if attacker wait less still can't go too far until second wave came out ,and don't forget about SC full of lv10 rodians that are even worst then Gr ones.
Baiting work.on lower levels,untill gr get to.lv 5/6 then they become really OP when skinned.
Don't teach the baker how to.make cookies,try making them first


Actually, no I didn’t contradict myself. I often see attackers lure not just the first wave, but the second one as well. Keep in mind, the first wave spawns after only a few seconds. By the time you lure the first wave, the second spawns, so you might as well wait for the second wave to spawn too. I’ve had plenty of attackers wait nearly 45 seconds into an attack to actually do something and still manage a 2-star against my level 9 GR snipes with lvl 8 rodian skins.


TNT
Major General
Posts: 367

Re: Rebel Barrack Vangard vs Empire Rodian Recon Sharpshooter is no contest

Post#28 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:29 am

Plagueis wrote:Rodians will still go after bait in the corner regardless of level. After that, you have time to go after the barracks and destroy them without worrying about your screening units being shot by rodians. It’s not a complicated strategy. It just means not dumping all of your stuff in one spot and expecting them to plow through rodians as many rebels still try and fail to do. Bumrush against rodians = loss. Those who lure tend to win and good players often wait at least 30 seconds into a battle before deploying any jets.

As the levels go up, the time between spawns go down and as Imperials prefer their barracks buried as deep as possible you can be looking at another two waves. Not to mention that Sniper GR is never alone and different GR have different spawn times.
This is all assuming that there is a spot you can lure the rodians to.

But even if you ignore all that, let's go back to the point I made that you ignored.
Exactly which single unit does enough damage, is fast enough to cover the distance and can break or ignore the walls to the well buried barracks before multiple additional waves?

I'll state my point again: there is no complex strategy, Rodians effectively make all non-jets unusable.

I can't judge if taking out the Rodian Snipers GR will fix the GR to be more doable for other units as most Imperials run them.
Ironically, Imperials can actually judge that better as they never face sniper GR of any kind.
What I do know is, that when I face unskinned snipers I still occassionally fail, however it feels a lot fairer.

I see imperials attack my base mostly with a swarm of jets dumped in 1 location, but occassionally I see a more diverse loadout being dumped. Complete with Astromedics and troopers. Do you know what they have in common? They work almost as well. (Which is not very. Most only get 30% before being beaten.)
I'm not argueing that Imperials have a cakewalk. Imperials have to contend with the same thing as Rebels (minus the Rodian snipers GR invalidating all non-jets (for the sake of argument I'm ignoring Hoth)), hence why Imperials greatly prefer being on Green as the ATACT is a huge (and I imagine a very welcome) crutch. Against all GR you need all the help you can get.

I am however argueing that the Rodian sniper GR invalidates all non-jet units and thus needs to go.


Plagueis wrote:Actually, no I didn’t contradict myself. I often see attackers lure not just the first wave, but the second one as well. Keep in mind, the first wave spawns after only a few seconds. By the time you lure the first wave, the second spawns, so you might as well wait for the second wave to spawn too. I’ve had plenty of attackers wait nearly 45 seconds into an attack to actually do something and still manage a 2-star against my level 9 GR snipes with lvl 8 rodian skins.

I never see Imperials that attack me wait out the waves of troopers coming their way. Do you wait out waves on your attack?
Join the Rebel3Squad.
Actually we joined up with the OuterRimRioters. Join us and reminiscine about the good old days when the game was playable.


Plagueis
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1379

Re: Rebel Barrack Vangard vs Empire Rodian Recon Sharpshooter is no contest

Post#29 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:49 pm

TNT wrote:But even if you ignore all that, let's go back to the point I made that you ignored.
Exactly which single unit does enough damage, is fast enough to cover the distance and can break or ignore the walls to the well buried barracks before multiple additional waves?

The answer is there isn’t. Not against a well designed base and not in one shot. With really tough bases you might have to deploy only a few jets or jumps at a time in between ways and whittle your way to the barracks. This isn’t the case with all bases of course and in many cases I’ve come across rebel bases with barracks that are nearly out in the open or behind maybe a single row of buildings. That’s not good defense. To answer another question: I wait for the second wave to spawn against tough bases. The last thing I need is a bunch of GR distracting and stopping my jumps in front of a line of sonic turrets and at the exact moment vader trips the SC. It’s almost like the harder the base is, the more you have to approach it like a squad war base. I’ve also had many a rebel lure the first wave and mow through my near maxed 10 imp base with barracks buried as far as they can be. This was before my GR was in the 9-10 range and my rodians were lvl 8. Before that it was a 50% roll-fest with the typical attacker using 1-2 landseers on a bunch of jets at the moment my GR rodians engaged them, allowing the jets to simply run them and the barracks over. I’m assuming most of my opponents have at least lvl 7 jet skins.

On the topic of Rodians making all non-jets useless, the same holds true for most other units, including imperial ones against buffed turrets and even rebel guard reserve. A few waves of high level rebel reg GR with trooper skin can be absolutely devastating to a jump attack. The only argueable unit is the cold mhc, which still has a wacky tendency to get within range of buffed rockets and other turrets before firing, especially if buildings are in front of those turrets or there is a break in a wall somewhere else. Hoth is a strange beast right now.

Personally, I think imps would be ok without GR snipes at least having the burst turret advantage to work with now and because as other rebels here have admitted, GR snipes aren’t that tough to deal with anyways. IMO it’s better to have more GR that spawns more often to slow an attack vs. a few that only work if the attacker lacks strategy or flat out messes up. There’s more flexibility and reliability that way even if the overall defensive potential is lower. On hoth we would just run dew GR with int-4 skin and mhc GR with cold mhcs skin. On all other worlds it would probably be GR storms and dews/bikes.

I'll state my point again: there is no complex strategy, Rodians effectively make all non-jets unusable.

I can't judge if taking out the Rodian Snipers GR will fix the GR to be more doable for other units as most Imperials run them.
Ironically, Imperials can actually judge that better as they never face sniper GR of any kind.
What I do know is, that when I face unskinned snipers I still occassionally fail, however it feels a lot fairer.

On the At-Act I don’t think it’s the damage and health that makes as much of a difference as the additonal units that continually spawn. In most cases, the walker pops a few shields and gets left in the dust by jumps, walking around and not really doing much as long as the jumps stay alive. The storms however seem to engage more buildings and do a good job of distracting sonic blasts away from the At-Act. Cold At-Mp MKIII should be a beast but without those additional troops the At-Act produces, it seems pretty reasonable.
Last edited by DeathStriker on Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Updated Topic Post - Corrected Quote for Clarity


thecursedpit
Lieutenant
Posts: 11

Re: Rebel Barrack Vangard vs Empire Rodian Recon Sharpshooter is no contest

Post#30 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:38 pm

I'll also dump my post from another topic about the same issue here, but agreed with many things mentioned.

let's look into the metagame data and see what damage/hp lvl 10 jumps/jets have with lvl 6 skins:

Jumps: 36.6k health and 4996 damage per sec
Jets: 40.3k health and 7330(!!!!) damage per sec

As you can tell, especially when it comes to damage that's a HUGE boost over the empire version.
Since jumps/jets are what's used most on offense, let's agree based on these numbers that rebels have quite a big advantage? ("Only" +- 47% more damage....If you don't think that's an advantage then plz my friend, give me what you're drinking!!!!)

So if I read this thread correctly people assume guard reserve snipers are THE answer to those jets and are so OP that it's difficult to attack empire bases? Seriously???
Let me explain how a rebel attack beats those reserves stupid easy:

1) (optional) If you can, "activate" the empire sc (bomb walls away and deploy infiltrator if necessary to run to the sc)
2) after sc troops deploy, drop a medic in a corner somewhere
3) let reserves spawn
4) all empire reserves and sc troops will "tunnel vision" on that droid alone
5) deploy your jets while the reserves and sc troops are still walking/flying towards your med
6) annihilate empire reserves and sc troops while annihilating entire empire base

Seriously, ai of this game and empire troops (like snipers) is so retarded that this strategy will just make you immune to all reserves. If you now know this tactic, see how stupidly easy it is to distract snipers (at least the reserves if not sc troops as well), and still can't win then my friend you deserve to lose.

Ofc empire players can also deploy this tactic, but our jumps are far weaker than the jets as mentioned.
Would be nice if they made empire vehicles a bit better to really invite empire players to use the vehicles and rebels use infantry as intended.....(ok, the hoth mcs are awesome yeah)


Concluding: many good points were already raised by others. For example that rodian reserves make most other infantry useless. Rodians are easy to beat with the strategy mentioned above.
In all honesty I'd love to see the sniper reserves getting nerved as an empire player, maybe even completely removed. Add skin for another empire vehicle and boost several empire vehicles generally so that you get more diverse armies. Just my opinion.


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