What empire players should put in the SC for defense

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DarkRebel
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1437

Re: What empire players should put in the SC for defense

Post#81 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:10 pm

Plagueis wrote:A lot of people do use tx’s which will go right through any buffed wall. Put an ithorian or kubaz through and it will get into trip range of the SC almost every time. Shields don’t matter as the rodians/sullustans will just walk out for a corner bait and be vulnerable to fangs/strikers anyways. I used to run rodians and one astromech in my SC exclusively but realistically 9 out of 10 defenses where the SC didn’t get sniped, the rodians just got lured and hit with a fang. And I’ve changed my base layout to make it “nearly impossible” to trip...It just doesn’t work. Sure, you can make it harder to trip but it will most likely get tripped anyways and leave your base even more vulnerable to a 50% because you put so many building outside of your turrets to create an ithorian/kubaz buffer. It’s not worth it.

I won't share my base here, but it's not easily tripped and most people that failed Kessen SC snipe would lose or got 1 star max.

My rodian snipers have not been tripped in the last while (few weeks/months now). Most people either skipped it or used Kessen to snipe SC. If Kessen got my SC, then I'd lose 70% of the time, as it would be very tough to stop the jets swarm, even with my OP RFTs.

I am really more worried about Kessen than SC lure, tbh. Most top rebels would aim for the SC and try to take it out right of the bat, rather than going with the bait/lure approach.

There is no base that 100% proof. Good players will beat you. What you aim for is 60% success rate, and be happy with it.


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Forceisweaknyou
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1474

Re: What empire players should put in the SC for defense

Post#82 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:44 pm

DarkRebel wrote:
Plagueis wrote:A lot of people do use tx’s which will go right through any buffed wall. Put an ithorian or kubaz through and it will get into trip range of the SC almost every time. Shields don’t matter as the rodians/sullustans will just walk out for a corner bait and be vulnerable to fangs/strikers anyways. I used to run rodians and one astromech in my SC exclusively but realistically 9 out of 10 defenses where the SC didn’t get sniped, the rodians just got lured and hit with a fang. And I’ve changed my base layout to make it “nearly impossible” to trip...It just doesn’t work. Sure, you can make it harder to trip but it will most likely get tripped anyways and leave your base even more vulnerable to a 50% because you put so many building outside of your turrets to create an ithorian/kubaz buffer. It’s not worth it.

I won't share my base here, but it's not easily tripped and most people that failed Kessen SC snipe would lose or got 1 star max.

My rodian snipers have not been tripped in the last while (few weeks/months now). Most people either skipped it or used Kessen to snipe SC. If Kessen got my SC, then I'd lose 70% of the time, as it would be very tough to stop the jets swarm, even with my OP RFTs.

I am really more worried about Kessen than SC lure, tbh. Most top rebels would aim for the SC and try to take it out right of the bat, rather than going with the bait/lure approach.

There is no base that 100% proof. Good players will beat you. What you aim for is 60% success rate, and be happy with it.

Agreed
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Plagueis
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1387

Re: What empire players should put in the SC for defense

Post#83 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:20 pm

I try to attract the scrubs. If they get a one star, odds are they won’t get my CB and I’ll get protection from better players. I’m not going to stress over losing 6 medals per every 7-8 successful defenses where I might lose credits or some alloy on my nearly maxed base. I try to minimize CB losses now (even though dekas are overrated). The trick is you want to keep people from skipping your base as noted above, the good players will steamroll you no matter how good you think your base is. Keep in mind there’s a larger population of “not very skilled” players vs. guys who can roll a max 10 and it’s probably a better strategy to setup defenses that you’ll win more than ones that you’ll lose by making your base look less like the temple of doom and more like a coldstone creamery. I was attracting those top level guys for the last 6 months at least and if everyone but those players skip your base, odds are your defensive win ratio is going to be very low and you’re going to tear your hair out on trying to figure out how to stop it.

I also think pretty much every base is easily lured by skilled players. If you don’t think so, post a pic of your base and I, plus several other people here will probably tell you exactly how to lure your Rodians out and nuke them with a single fang. Not that it isn’t a good layout, but every base is painfully vulnerable to having the SC lured and the fact that many players are going for the kessen shot seems to say that they see that vulnerabilty and try to exploit it instead of luring. It’s an all or nothing approach that more people are getting better at.

Personally, I put kubaz through walls. Even buffed level 10 walls...The first one runs up, shoots three times and damages the wall before dying. I send a second kubaz on the exact same spot which fires once and goes through, tripping the SC which I then corner lure and striker if there are sullustans. This is even with a line of resource buildings between the map edge and walls. There really is no defense for it and these and other tactics are becoming just as common and similar as rebels luring GR snipes. It’s a major reason why I stopped running SC rodians. I would rather have the attacker invest so much time into setting up a lure only to have a dirt slow, ultra high health unit like a rancor pop out and make kessen suicide mission.
Last edited by Plagueis on Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.


DarkRebel
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1437

Re: What empire players should put in the SC for defense

Post#84 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:37 pm

Plagueis wrote:I try to attract the scrubs. If they get a one star, odds are they won’t get my CB and I’ll get protection from better players. I’m not going to stress over losing 6 medals per every 7-8 successful defenses where I might lose credits or some alloy on my nearly maxed base. I try to minimize CB losses now (even though dekas are overrated). The trick is you want to keep people from skipping your base as noted above, the good players will steamroll you. But there’s a larger population of “not very skilled” players vs. guys who can roll a max 10 and it’s probably a better strategy to setup defenses that you’ll win more than ones that you’ll lose by making your base look less like the temple of doom and more like a coldstone. I was attracting those top level guys for the last 6 months at least and if everyone but those players skip your base, odds are your defensive win ratio is going to be very low and you’re going to tear your hair out on trying to figure out how to stop it.

I also think pretty much every base is easily lured by skilled players. If you don’t think so, post a pic of your base and I can tell you exactly how I would lure your Rodians out and nuke them with a single fang. There really is no defense for it and these tactics are becoming just as common and similar as rebels luring GR snipes.

There is a way to look up any player who ever played in squad war. My in game handle is also DarkRebel.


Plagueis
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1387

Re: What empire players should put in the SC for defense

Post#85 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:42 pm

Again, this isn’t a case of saying your base sucks. I win some and lose some too. I’m just saying that there’s no “unbeatable” base out there and especially one where the SC can’t be lured without using a slight bit of strategy.


JDD
Major General
Posts: 377

Re: What empire players should put in the SC for defense

Post#86 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:53 pm

Erm, I agree with Plagueis' SC tripping methods. I sometimes don't Kessen snipe it because the twin balls are present. Trip all 3, line 'em then let loose with Kessen. 1* is most assured, 2* if I burn some medships, 3* when flag dropped & a Farnborough airshow unless the base is full of maxed buffed RFTs & maxed Rodent GRs.


DarkRebel
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1437

Re: What empire players should put in the SC for defense

Post#87 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:48 pm

Plagueis wrote:Again, this isn’t a case of saying your base sucks. I win some and lose some too. I’m just saying that there’s no “unbeatable” base out there and especially one where the SC can’t be lured without using a slight bit of strategy.

guess I am lucky you aren’t playing rebels. (kind of wishing your were, actually)
I never said anything about unbeatable base, nor untrippable base. Just that it is not a good assumption to just say anyone can easily trip SC from a base that is designed to protect the SC. If you have success in whatever you do, fine. Keep doing it. But to make statement like rodian snipers in SC is useless is a bit ... immature.
Good player will win. Sure.
But the average players may just have problem with the SC rodian snipers along with barrack rodian snipers, if they don’t have a plan to deal with them pre-battle.


Plagueis
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1387

Re: What empire players should put in the SC for defense

Post#88 » Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:42 am

Considering a lot of these guys are facing rebels who aren’t at a level of strategy to easily deal with rodians using rudimentary luring skills and a single fang fighter/ambushing, it would be safe to say that basically any of the typical standby SC loadouts like buffed jumps, snipes or bikes will do just fine IF your opponent isn’t prepared to deal with them. To all who need to know, the question of “what imps should put in their SC” really depends on the caliber of opponents you’re facing. SWC does get harder as you progress and you’ll eventually face opponents who will find the slightest weakness in your base layout or SC troop selection and exploit it for a 2-3 star win to the point of frustration and starting imbalance threads on this forum. In my experience, Rodians worked really well for a few months.... until enough high base score rebels realized they needed to depend less on kessen sniping and more on luring and fanging the SC & GR rodians. It’s to the point where literally every high medal lvl 10 rebel that attacks my base uses one of 50,000 ways to trip the SC regardless of how I configure my base, lure everything away and either fang or ambush with jets. I had to run something non-lureable to break that strategy, at least for my SC troops and to mess with kessen. That’s just me though. If you’re getting attacked by lower level opponents you may not have the same issue yet, but there really is no silver bullet when it comes to SC troop selection and there is nothing that is going to stop an attacker with enough skill from winning, especially as you progress. SWC is offense-focused ATM so the defensive deck is stacked against us.


DarkRebel
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1437

Re: What empire players should put in the SC for defense

Post#89 » Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:47 am

Because there is a skip button, you typically see more attack styles that are effective against your base design. Base that is weak against Kessen SC sniping will see lots of Kessen. Base that is weak against the bait/lure (or strong against Kessen) will see many bait/lure players.

Similarly when attacking, you pick on the base you can beat with troop composition in your load, as well as your preferred attack style.

As said, if you can win 60%, be happy with it. Most don’t.


Plagueis
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1387

Re: What empire players should put in the SC for defense

Post#90 » Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:27 am

That’s where my strategy has changed recently. I changed my layout to basically “water down” how often those players who have a chance at beating my base by a good amount can actually attack it. Like I said, if I get attacked a bunch and go under protection for a 1-star with low resource losses after 6-7 consecutive defensive wins, big whoop. It beats getting rolled by a top 50 guy 5 minutes after logging out. I made my base look “easy” enough for inexperienced players to beat when in reality it still requires all of the same high level tactics to do so. I know where people are going to attack and I create a percieved “weakness” in my base for people to try to exploit. The thing is most attackers at their level of progression haven’t experience what REALLY nasty GR and buffed turrets can do and get in way over their heads while chasing the CB cheese.

And you’re right, winning 60% of the time on defense is good. I’m probably around the 70% range right now so no complaints here. But some people lose pretty much every defense, probably because the players who would faceplant on their base look at it, say “nope” and skip which leaves them with a pool of top players who have all of the tools and experience to deal with GR/SC rodians and wreck their base. It’s possible to make your base look too “nasty” and lose more. So in conclusion getting that elusive 60% or higher win ratio isn’t impossible. It just requires changing your defensive strategy from deterring all but the best to inviting as many “not the best” players to attack your base as possible.


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