Squad Wars Matchmaking Fixed - NOT!

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Boog
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Posts: 459

Re: Squad Wars Matchmaking Fixed - NOT!

Post#61 » Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:04 am

My squad gets what appears to be lousy matching every time. We have a war coming up where we have the following:

7 x Lvl 8; 6 x Lvl 7; 1 x Lvl 6; 1 x Lvl 3 Total Base Score = 23354

Rebs:

4 x Lvl 10; 3 x Lvl 9; 5 x Lvl 8; 3 x Lvl 7 Total Base Score = 28728

Our last 15 matches: 15-0

Their last 15 matches: 3-12

I could be wrong, but I suspect we'll hammer them. Our last 15 matchups have all been similar, but if they don't show up at go time, it doesn't really matter how many level 10's they have. Or, if two of them show up, and all they do is play takeaway with outposts while 3 of us take outposts, and five of us hit bases, it won't be much of a match, either. The key is to get 7-8 online at the start, and not screw around. And don't play takeaway with the outposts. If you hit the outposts, attackers have to move in right after. In my old squad on windows, we frequently fell into the trap of having one or two players take away outposts as some sort of genius defensive move. It usually resulted in us losing 45-7, and wasting all of our attacks on outposts, and barely (if ever) attacking bases when we held the outposts.

Edit: yup, the war is going pretty much how I figured. The total base score doesn't always predict which squad is stronger.
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Swad
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Posts: 415

Re: Squad Wars Matchmaking Fixed - NOT!

Post#62 » Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:42 pm

You are right in terms of ensuring a win at all costs. However it is that drive to get it all over so quickly, in what is a 24 hour war, that has made war reasonably pointless for casual players and teams.
We all know that getting everyone online at the start is the best chsnce to win, but what happened to the fun?
If opponents do that to my team, we just wait until the next war. If attacks go on right to the end, it is great fun.
:lol:

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Boog
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Posts: 459

Re: Squad Wars Matchmaking Fixed - NOT!

Post#63 » Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:49 pm

I don't know, I think it's fun being ahead 45-2 30 minutes in, and then taking tako away every time the other side tries to do something. My squad thinks it's fun, too. And 16 frags works for me.


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ObiWanKenobi2016
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Re: Squad Wars Matchmaking Fixed - NOT!

Post#64 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:03 am

ObiWanKenobi2016 wrote:
Pirate wrote:We've had our biggest mismatches in August. On August 11, we had 31002 us vs. 40996 them (they're total base score 32.2% higher than ours). 14 mature HQ10 vs. 3 mid HQ10. It was a Tako draw but it sure felt like a win.


That's the kind of gross mismatch I was talking about in my earlier posts.

I think that's an outstanding effort from everyone in your squad to get the 45-45 tie. We never managed it in our gross mismatches. Kudos to you and your squad.


Okay, matchmaking is NOT fixed after all. It's also highly inconsistent. After a series of fair matches, we've just had one of our worst gross mismatches. The total base score of our War Party was 31, 860. The other squad were 43,434, or 136% of our base score.

It's no fault of the Imp squad. It's the matchmaking. But a 12,000 base score advantage is insurmountable. That's more than 4 maxed 10 bases extra (a maxed base w all buildings at 10, and 2 L50 dekas is 2964)
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DarkRebel
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Posts: 418

Re: Squad Wars Matchmaking Fixed - NOT!

Post#65 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:20 am

What I think they should do, is to not match rebel right away. This is a mistake because there will never be enough rebel squad to choose to find the right match for IMP, considering the factional population gap between the 2 factions.
Instead, I think, match squads on each hour interval. This way, you have more squads to match with.
And don't limit between IMP and rebel but instead, match any 2 squads with closest base ratings and squad war record.
Here is how I would do it:
- A match making pool starts and ends on every hour
- Any squad entered during the same hour of the day will be put into the same pool.
- At the end of the hour, sort squads based by base rating (75%) and squad war record (25%)
- Then match 1 with 2, 3 with 4, 5 with 6, and so on ...

The most anyone wait for a match is one hour.

If we want tighter match making, then making the pool matching period to 2-3 hours, instead of 1 hour. The more squads in the pool, the easier to find a better match.

Would be fun to see Dark Bridgade against STARBENDER.


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Midge
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Re: Squad Wars Matchmaking Fixed - NOT!

Post#66 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:41 am

ObiWanKenobi2016 wrote:
ObiWanKenobi2016 wrote:
Pirate wrote:We've had our biggest mismatches in August. On August 11, we had 31002 us vs. 40996 them (they're total base score 32.2% higher than ours). 14 mature HQ10 vs. 3 mid HQ10. It was a Tako draw but it sure felt like a win.


That's the kind of gross mismatch I was talking about in my earlier posts.

I think that's an outstanding effort from everyone in your squad to get the 45-45 tie. We never managed it in our gross mismatches. Kudos to you and your squad.


Okay, matchmaking is NOT fixed after all. It's also highly inconsistent. After a series of fair matches, we've just had one of our worst gross mismatches. The total base score of our War Party was 31, 860. The other squad were 43,434, or 136% of our base score.

It's no fault of the Imp squad. It's the matchmaking. But a 12,000 base score advantage is insurmountable. That's more than 4 maxed 10 bases extra (a maxed base w all buildings at 10, and 2 L50 dekas is 2964)


It is not insurmountable ... plenty of teams have done it. ... Also ... seriously ... this happened ONCE to you in a handful of matches?

What are they supposed to do? Only have MYTH play against like six other squads with 2800+ base scores everywhere?

The real question is why is your base score so low? Your No. 15 player is a 2171 ... if you took 15 of them you would be 32,565 ... but you were BELOW that? You only have FIVE players below that number that are war viable (and that is including Gandalf and his ONE medal) ... did you put them all in? Are you rolling into wars with Chip the Fish constantly who is either a sandbagger or a major HQ pusher? That is going to hurt you considerably.

It is simple ... once you roll out with 4 (maybe even three) Level 10 HQs you are in the big boy pool. I have seen it with all of our growing squads (There is a reason I don't have any level 10 players in TheMobWantsYou).

And again ... all that said ... you have above a 60% winning percentage. What number does that have to be for you to consider it "fair" ... 70? 80? 100?

Base score, medals, HQ level have nothing to do with how good at war a squad is. Until you tighten your war party, make like 11 regular at least and rotate maybe 3 or 4 positions among others, your going to get weird matches, particularly with a sandbagger in your crew.

Seriously, that is frustrating to see. Carrying a sub-2000 10 around with you and then whining about "base scores."

I just don't see you getting hit with all that many mismatches when I look at your war record, particularly with the number of wars.
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ObiWanKenobi2016
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Re: Squad Wars Matchmaking Fixed - NOT!

Post#67 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:33 am

Midge wrote:It is not insurmountable ... plenty of teams have done it.


Firstly, Midge my friend, there are mismatches, and then there are gross mismatches. We have won mismatches. We've beaten better squads where they have had a 20% base score advantage. We've also lost to them too. If the right outposts are in play (e.g. Tako) it's possible to attack up a level but if they're not? When it's 8s and 9s against 10s? Forget about it. In this particular War, the mismatch was of a different order of magnitude, particularly when the outposts were (IIRC) Yavin, Hoth and Erkit.

Secondly, most squads don't post base score data, so you have no evidence to make that assertion. It's easy to make grand claims, and many on here, and on LINE do. Some claim they can attack up a level, and beat sniper-med guard reserve at level 10. That doesn't make it so. I have at least provided base score data for my assertion it was a gross mismatch.

Midge wrote:... Also ... seriously ... this happened ONCE to you in a handful of matches?

No, more than once. When we have faced a couple of other high ranking squads of that sort of calibre.

Midge wrote:
What are they supposed to do? Only have **** play against like six other squads with 2800+ base scores everywhere?

I'd rather you hadn't named our opponents. I invite you to edit your post to redact that. I don't think they took any pride in beating us given the match. I don't name squads when discussing mismatches. Matchmaking is a dev issue, not a squad issue. You have my LINE details, I can point out the other squads of that calibre for you on LINE if you wish.

As for who the top squads War against, clearly matchmaking needs to allow for a degree of looseness to make the game interesting for those at all levels. What is being discussed here (at least in my posts), is the loosening of the matchmaking parameters that a lot of squads have been experiencing. For Kenobi's Command, we've seen it since 29th April. For us it seemed to tighten up in August, and I posted about that in this thread. We've also had some random mismatches thrown in. The point is, matchmaking was better and fairer when the parameters were tighter. After 182 Wars (at the time of posting) I think I know the difference. It's the changes I'm discussing.

Midge wrote:The real question is why is your base score so low? Your No. 15 player is a 2171 ... if you took 15 of them you would be 32,565 ... but you were BELOW that? You only have FIVE players below that number that are war viable (and that is including Gandalf and his ONE medal) ... did you put them all in? Are you rolling into wars with Chip the Fish constantly who is either a sandbagger or a major HQ pusher? That is going to hurt you considerably.

It is simple ... once you roll out with 4 (maybe even three) Level 10 HQs you are in the big boy pool. I have seen it with all of our growing squads (There is a reason I don't have any level 10 players in TheMobWantsYou).

Our squad plays for fun. We're not trying to conquer the SOD rankings list. In Kenobi's Command, Anyone who wants in for a War gets in. Anyone who wants to be rested gets rested. I ask at the end of each War who wants in or out, and my Commanders, pretty much get their wish. I'm not just picking those with the highest base scores, or the best attack records.

You've named Chip the Fish. I'd like to say that Chip does rather well in Wars, both on attack and on defence, and has done since he first joined as a level 4 (maybe a year ago?). He's often underestimated, including by those who are much more 'serious' players and who have much better bases. Fair warning to our future oppos ;-)

You've also named Gandalf. He is a newer member, he's not topping the roster with his medal score, but he is coming along nicely in Wars. In fact he's proving himself to be quite the Kenobi. And as you went on to say "medals, HQ level level have nothing to do with you good at war a squad is".

Midge wrote:And again ... all that said ... you have above a 60% winning percentage. What number does that have to be for you to consider it "fair" ... 70? 80? 100? Base score, medals, HQ level have nothing to do with how good at war a squad is.

I agree with you completely about base score, medals and HQ level.

The winning percentage doesn't matter for us, nor does it affect the fairness of the match. We just want a reasonable chance of winning our Wars. With our eclectic mix of bases each War, I think we do rather well over all. When we lose fair and square, we take it on the chin. Kudos to the other guys. It's no problem.

When you face a squad with a 20% base score advantage it is difficult enough, and that used to be the limit. When it's more than that, it can verge on the impossible, particularly if the lower bases don't have the planets unlocked for the outposts that are in play.

Midge wrote:Until you tighten your war party, make like 11 regular at least and rotate maybe 3 or 4 positions among others, your going to get weird matches, particularly with a sandbagger in your crew.

I get that, but although my commanders do love the game, we also have RL priorities that take precedence. We play for fun. As I said before, we're not trying to top SOD. We just want a fair match. The older, tighter, parameters gave us that.
Last edited by ObiWanKenobi2016 on Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Stop by for Wars, perks and rep points. We're maxed out.

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Midge
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Re: Squad Wars Matchmaking Fixed - NOT!

Post#68 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:48 am

1. The parameters did not change much at all. It is random. You have runs where it is easier and runs when it is harder.

2. If you want to be a casual squad, which is fine and I understand, you're going to run into big boys sometimes and you're going to get spanked. Just how it is.

3. You don't need people to post their base scores, you can look them up. I have seen PLENTY of squads beat, regularly, squads with base scores that are 20-30% ahead of theirs. Hell, our second squad has beaten squads that had them by almost 50%. It happens. Focusing on base score is silly, it is not a measure of a squad at all.

4. If you say you can only attack up a level with Tako ... then I am sorry ... you need to get better with the other posts. There are many places to discuss and learn how to do that. There are a TON of Level 9 players that can wipe full fledged 10s with Tat/Yavin Tat/Dando Yavin/Dando. AND if you are stuck in a war that has Yavin/Hoth/Kit and you can't get the wipes (which is certainly tougher) your defense needs to be better. There are a TON of 9s that HOLD against full 10s with those posts in play. A TON.

5. My squad started 34-13-7 (SOD not including those before). Seriously ... That was our record, not NEARLY as good as the people complaining in these threads. In those early matches we had TWO level 10 players (not me or my second hand) and they were not even in most wars. We faced Enclave, Shadow Company, Imperial Snipers TWICE, ByDesign, SithForceElite, RusFIRE ... all of which were carrying at least 10 level 10s, many carrying 13+ and some carrying 5-8 maxed out. NOT ONCE did we bitch about it, not even among ourselves. It is simply a mindset. You get better or you don't. You can't call yourself a "casual squad for fun" and then whine when you get whipped by less casual squads.

6. AGAIN ... you carry SEVEN level 10 players, probably 4-5 in every battle. You certainly have the troops to get uplinks against strong squads. There are MANY players in the game that do this at Level 9 no matter the opponent. That is a fact. If you can't, it is awfully easy to just blame matchmaking instead of saying, huh, maybe we need to get better?

EDIT: BTW, I took out a 2,921 base score just yesterday with ONLY Dando with my Level 9-1,441 base score sandbag base (TheMobWantsYou) Three links. 15 seconds left. Knew I had it 20 seconds in. AND I didn't even have an SC or a DekO. Keep SAYING you can't attack up and telling your teammates they can't ... and that will be true.

EDIT No. 2: FWIW, you do seem to have a little worse luck than many squads, Kenobi. BUT, still ... winning 60%+ is hard to sympathize with.

You could always be these guys ... http://ksod.us/squad/69d29798-2a65-11e4 ... 63e4004f92
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Home of TheMidnightMob, TheMorningMob and TheMobWantsYou

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RedMorgan

Re: Squad Wars Matchmaking Fixed - NOT!

Post#69 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:24 am

I have no problem being matched up against a somewhat stronger opponent, that's just a part of the game. As long as our opponent's advantage isn't too great, my squad typically does quite well. We don't win them all, but we do quite well no matter what. I typically enjoy a challenge for my squad, the victory is that much more satisfying when it happens.

However the last few wars (five now in a row) we have been grossly overmatched. The latest (and ongoing one) pits my squad (two level 10s, three level 9s, three level 8s, five level 7s and two level 6s) against what for us is a monster opponent (seven level 10s, five level 9s , two level 8s and one level 6).

My squad's level is 37, theirs is 44. My squad has 126,575 medals, theirs 214,316. Their squad is ranked 582 places better than mine.

Credit to my boys for trying, but really, they have more level 10s than I have 10s AND 9s in my squad. My entire squad was ko'ed in less than 30 minutes.

Just how is the matchmaking for this squad war fixed?


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ObiWanKenobi2016
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Re: Squad Wars Matchmaking Fixed - NOT!

Post#70 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:51 pm

RedMorgan wrote:...


RedMorgan, my friend. I can well understand your position.

Can I suggest you add your matchmaking data to the matchmaking data thread here:
viewtopic.php?f=69&t=21054

Extra data is always helpful.
HQ 10 - 15K medals - Kenobi's Command - L 50 Squad - Max perks - 3 Squad Wars a week

Stop by for Wars, perks and rep points. We're maxed out.

"You must do what you think is right, of course" (We're the good guys)


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