Unbalanced Rebel Vehicles vs underpowered Empire vehicles: the mid-game.

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TKTB51
Admiral
Posts: 581

Re: Unbalanced Rebel Vehicles vs underpowered Empire vehicles: the mid-game.

Post#31 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:20 pm

Han did shoot first.
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DarthStrutter
Captain
Posts: 94

Re: Unbalanced Rebel Vehicles vs underpowered Empire vehicles: the mid-game.

Post#32 » Thu Dec 12, 2019 4:23 am

Oldrebel wrote:
DarthStrutter wrote:Yes the MHC is stronger one on one but the MHC is 12 units to the Hails 7 units. Minus 2 troops you can use 2 Hails to 1 MHC which does give an advantage to Rebels in that aspect. Also 3 MHC plus 6 units in sc vs 6 Hails in sc. Still a nice advantage for Rebels. And no i don't have a base with each faction but i know what i see. There are definitely hero advantages for the Imps but there are unit advantages for the Rebels. Rebels can drop more troops and that also helps in no op wars. But if you don't have a good plan of attack more troops doesn't mean much. Lol


Two hailfires do 5% more damage than 1 MHC, at a cost of 2 additional UC.
However, it would take 3.85 hailfires to have the same health as just one MHC.
Simply put, MHCs last much longer in battle, hailfires are made of paper. Add a repair droid and MHCs just keep going, can't heal hails at a fast enough rate because they are simply too fragile.



Hails do 1191 damage per shot and there's a shot count of 6. That's damage of 7146 each time it fires, 1 Hail. MHC's do 6998 damage per shot and shot count is 1. So i believe you are incorrect. Then double up the Hails and 14,292 damage 14 units vs 6998 12 units. That's a significant advantage damage wise. Yes Hails are more fragile than MHC's but MHC's aren't exactly heavily armored. And just imagine the Hoth increases. This is why so many Rebels have 6 Hails in their sc on Hoth. Lol


Oldrebel
Commodore
Posts: 117

Re: Unbalanced Rebel Vehicles vs underpowered Empire vehicles: the mid-game.

Post#33 » Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:42 pm

DarthStrutter wrote:
Oldrebel wrote:
DarthStrutter wrote:Yes the MHC is stronger one on one but the MHC is 12 units to the Hails 7 units. Minus 2 troops you can use 2 Hails to 1 MHC which does give an advantage to Rebels in that aspect. Also 3 MHC plus 6 units in sc vs 6 Hails in sc. Still a nice advantage for Rebels. And no i don't have a base with each faction but i know what i see. There are definitely hero advantages for the Imps but there are unit advantages for the Rebels. Rebels can drop more troops and that also helps in no op wars. But if you don't have a good plan of attack more troops doesn't mean much. Lol


Two hailfires do 5% more damage than 1 MHC, at a cost of 2 additional UC.
However, it would take 3.85 hailfires to have the same health as just one MHC.
Simply put, MHCs last much longer in battle, hailfires are made of paper. Add a repair droid and MHCs just keep going, can't heal hails at a fast enough rate because they are simply too fragile.



Hails do 1191 damage per shot and there's a shot count of 6. That's damage of 7146 each time it fires, 1 Hail. MHC's do 6998 damage per shot and shot count is 1. So i believe you are incorrect. Then double up the Hails and 14,292 damage 14 units vs 6998 12 units. That's a significant advantage damage wise. Yes Hails are more fragile than MHC's but MHC's aren't exactly heavily armored. And just imagine the Hoth increases. This is why so many Rebels have 6 Hails in their sc on Hoth. Lol

Hails do 7146 damage in 3.5 sec, which calculates to the 2401 dps shown online. MHC has 6998 damage in 1.8 sec, which also calculates to the 3887 dps shown online. Thus, my calculated numbers above, which are correct.
The MHC effectively fires at almost twice the rate of hails. And its health is enough it will get in at least those two shots and likely more. If not carefully screened, a hail won't get in more than one cycle.


DarthStrutter
Captain
Posts: 94

Re: Unbalanced Rebel Vehicles vs underpowered Empire vehicles: the mid-game.

Post#34 » Thu Dec 12, 2019 6:42 pm

Oldrebel wrote:
DarthStrutter wrote:
Oldrebel wrote:
Two hailfires do 5% more damage than 1 MHC, at a cost of 2 additional UC.
However, it would take 3.85 hailfires to have the same health as just one MHC.
Simply put, MHCs last much longer in battle, hailfires are made of paper. Add a repair droid and MHCs just keep going, can't heal hails at a fast enough rate because they are simply too fragile.



Hails do 1191 damage per shot and there's a shot count of 6. That's damage of 7146 each time it fires, 1 Hail. MHC's do 6998 damage per shot and shot count is 1. So i believe you are incorrect. Then double up the Hails and 14,292 damage 14 units vs 6998 12 units. That's a significant advantage damage wise. Yes Hails are more fragile than MHC's but MHC's aren't exactly heavily armored. And just imagine the Hoth increases. This is why so many Rebels have 6 Hails in their sc on Hoth. Lol

Hails do 7146 damage in 3.5 sec, which calculates to the 2401 dps shown online. MHC has 6998 damage in 1.8 sec, which also calculates to the 3887 dps shown online. Thus, my calculated numbers above, which are correct.
The MHC effectively fires at almost twice the rate of hails. And its health is enough it will get in at least those two shots and likely more. If not carefully screened, a hail won't get in more than one cycle.



Twice the rate? You're quoting duration. You would also have to factor in how often esch unit fires. Just because the MHC has a shorter duration, due to 1 shot vs 6, doesn't mean it fires again immediately after the previous shot. That does not happen. There is a delay between shots, how much I'm not sure and at first glance on papajessie i did not see that. So with your calculations, which make sense, you also have to factor in the delays between shots on both units and then you'll have an accurate account of damage per time unit. If there's a longer delay between shots with the MHC vs the Hail then that changes things. If not then you have a point. But duration of shots do not mean that's how often they shoot. How many times does each unit shoot in say 10 seconds. That should give an accurate number on damage


Shelendil
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1079

Re: Unbalanced Rebel Vehicles vs underpowered Empire vehicles: the mid-game.

Post#35 » Thu Dec 12, 2019 7:35 pm

DarthStrutter wrote:
Oldrebel wrote:
DarthStrutter wrote:

Hails do 1191 damage per shot and there's a shot count of 6. That's damage of 7146 each time it fires, 1 Hail. MHC's do 6998 damage per shot and shot count is 1. So i believe you are incorrect. Then double up the Hails and 14,292 damage 14 units vs 6998 12 units. That's a significant advantage damage wise. Yes Hails are more fragile than MHC's but MHC's aren't exactly heavily armored. And just imagine the Hoth increases. This is why so many Rebels have 6 Hails in their sc on Hoth. Lol

Hails do 7146 damage in 3.5 sec, which calculates to the 2401 dps shown online. MHC has 6998 damage in 1.8 sec, which also calculates to the 3887 dps shown online. Thus, my calculated numbers above, which are correct.
The MHC effectively fires at almost twice the rate of hails. And its health is enough it will get in at least those two shots and likely more. If not carefully screened, a hail won't get in more than one cycle.



Twice the rate? You're quoting duration. You would also have to factor in how often esch unit fires. Just because the MHC has a shorter duration, due to 1 shot vs 6, doesn't mean it fires again immediately after the previous shot. That does not happen. There is a delay between shots, how much I'm not sure and at first glance on papajessie i did not see that. So with your calculations, which make sense, you also have to factor in the delays between shots on both units and then you'll have an accurate account of damage per time unit. If there's a longer delay between shots with the MHC vs the Hail then that changes things. If not then you have a point. But duration of shots do not mean that's how often they shoot. How many times does each unit shoot in say 10 seconds. That should give an accurate number on damage


His numbers are correct. The 3.5 sec and the 1.8 sec are the cycle durations, which take into account the appropriate shot delays and reload times.

Hail dps = 2041.7 (20417 damage per 10 seconds)
MHC dps = 3887.8 (38878 damage per 10 seconds)
Marauders-Delta


DarkRebel
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1437

Re: Unbalanced Rebel Vehicles vs underpowered Empire vehicles: the mid-game.

Post#36 » Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:06 am

MHC is better than HFD if you only compare DPS and health, especially health. There should be no debate here. (on the other hand, jugg is better than ATAT).
The one advantage with HFD is its speed. If you can keep them alive, you have better chance to clear a base with HFD than with MHC.
What I found is that, in general, it is easier for IMP to get 2 stars, but easier for rebel to get 3 stars.

IMP play is all about timing and positioning, and rebel play is about agility and speed. The pace is different.

You need to screen for both against rockets.


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TKTB51
Admiral
Posts: 581

Re: Unbalanced Rebel Vehicles vs underpowered Empire vehicles: the mid-game.

Post#37 » Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:41 pm

I just did a 16% HD on Tat, no MHC skin bonuses in this.

Vader (regular, not Lord) in front of HFDs ... just butchered them. They killed themselves with their own shots.

And someone had dropped MHCs into my SC, they were very effective in the HD. I don't think I've seen a 16% (no air support, just 3x heroes and my SC) in quite a long time.
Player: TK-TB51 (leader)
Squad: DarkLords
Level 50 with all maxed out perks
Imperial (like you didn't know that already)

Founder of MEGA - "Make the Empire Great Again".

www.darklords.info (under construction)


Oldrebel
Commodore
Posts: 117

Re: Unbalanced Rebel Vehicles vs underpowered Empire vehicles: the mid-game.

Post#38 » Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:44 pm

DarkRebel wrote:IMP play is all about timing and positioning, and rebel play is about agility and speed.

I don't disagree.
Just pointing out the ridiculous notion of the original post.
Rebel vehicles are by no means imbalanced, they suck compared to Imp vehicles.
Watch no op war replays-black dog in every single one, with two shield-buster starships, then x-wing the SC. The slow speed and range of Imp walker is an advantage, that's why rebs are trying to get hero AT-TE! Juggs just rush in and trip SC usually.

But, it's a real slap that our "stolen" units are 100% inferior to same Imp units, when Imp "seized" units are EXACTLY same specs as rebel vehicles.

And... if AT and MHC are so "slow" and cumbersome, WHY do they get twice the rotation speed for new target? Faster than hails. That's not agility.


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Ghostie
Major General
Posts: 398

Re: Unbalanced Rebel Vehicles vs underpowered Empire vehicles: the mid-game.

Post#39 » Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:22 pm

My thoughts on this whole thread if your still attacking with vehicles in PvP then your completely lost and balance ain't gonna help you.

Wars are a different story though and each faction has different advantages such as troop count/speed/health/damage ….etc. I don't think balance is far off at all in war situations if your an intelligent attacker for either side.
Overconfidence is the most dangerous form of carelessness.


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