Unbalanced Rebel Vehicles vs underpowered Empire vehicles: the mid-game.

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DarkRebel
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1391

Re: Unbalanced Rebel Vehicles vs underpowered Empire vehicles: the mid-game.

Post#11 » Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:07 am

Mainzer wrote:Its a strategy game... means each unit has his point where its good (ok don't talk about demolition droid etc... lol).

Just need to know how to use it, Jugg is nice to get Shields down... But you need to protect him really good against rocket turrets ..

And AT AT as already named has more range... so good to set him where burst towers are...

Its always a complain to say this is better as.... But just try to use the unit useful... Its like the adjustment now on Imperial Jumps.... Now its next to Rebel Jets.. but Rebel Burst has lower damage as Imperial 9500 reb vs 12500 imperial.. There are many units and buffs who are more or less better as the other fraction.

Well said.
+1


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lukeskywalker
Admiral
Posts: 516

Re: Unbalanced Rebel Vehicles vs underpowered Empire vehicles: the mid-game.

Post#12 » Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:19 am

After having logged some time now with my Imperial bases, after spending much time with my rebel bases, my opinion is there are pro's and con's to both sides. You just need to get used to the unit capacity differences, ranges, AI, etc. At the end of the day, most of us who have played in both factions will probably come to the same conclusion. It's fairly even. I get the same results in both factions. If there is one complaint, it's not that Empire vehicles are underpowered. It's simply that Jet skins, SMTT's, and ITT's/A-A5's have made game play more similar than different in both factions.
lukeskywalker
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sgu97cab
Major General
Posts: 475

Re: Unbalanced Rebel Vehicles vs underpowered Empire vehicles: the mid-game.

Post#13 » Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:09 pm

Mainzer wrote:Its a strategy game... means each unit has his point where its good (ok don't talk about demolition droid etc... lol).

Just need to know how to use it, Jugg is nice to get Shields down... But you need to protect him really good against rocket turrets ..

And AT AT as already named has more range... so good to set him where burst towers are...

Its always a complain to say this is better as.... But just try to use the unit useful... Its like the adjustment now on Imperial Jumps.... Now its next to Rebel Jets.. but Rebel Burst has lower damage as Imperial 9500 reb vs 12500 imperial.. There are many units and buffs who are more or less better as the other fraction.


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Mainzer
Officer
Posts: 9

Re: Unbalanced Rebel Vehicles vs underpowered Empire vehicles: the mid-game.

Post#14 » Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:54 am

Hahahah,
you are everywhere mate :lol: Today we war against Wolfpck .. lets see how this will work. We have a good linup this war.. maybe a chance to beet them.

Hope to match you soon again :)

Cheers Mainzer
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You got me @ Line with ID: mainzer76


DarthStrutter
Commander
Posts: 30

Re: Unbalanced Rebel Vehicles vs underpowered Empire vehicles: the mid-game.

Post#15 » Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:18 pm

Shelendil wrote:Here's another thread full of misinformation.

The AT-AP shoots 4 times and takes 10 UC.
The AT-MP shoots 6 times and takes 15 UC.
The dps per unit capacity is virtually identical (373 vs 372).

The AAT and 2-M also have almost identical dps per UC (219 vs 226), but the 2-M has 2 more range, which is a very significant advantage.

Wherever you're getting your facts from is wrong.



Things have never been equal. Rebels have super jets and imperials had sniper GR until the rebels complained and now have sharpie GR as well. The point the guy is making is imperials are supposed to have the better vehicles and he claims we do not. I do know the rebel TX is stronger than the imperial TX. At least Zynga has fixed the jumps. But the point is there were differences but there was also balance. Now since the rebels have complained twice they now more advantages than the imperials, that's another point.


Oldrebel
Captain
Posts: 79

Re: Unbalanced Rebel Vehicles vs underpowered Empire vehicles: the mid-game.

Post#16 » Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:33 pm

DarthStrutter wrote: I do know the rebel TX is stronger than the imperial TX.

Wrong... Imp TX has better health and damage, and two tiles more range.


DarkRebel
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1391

Re: Unbalanced Rebel Vehicles vs underpowered Empire vehicles: the mid-game.

Post#17 » Thu Nov 28, 2019 6:03 pm

Oldrebel wrote:
DarthStrutter wrote: I do know the rebel TX is stronger than the imperial TX.

Wrong... Imp TX has better health and damage, and two tiles more range.


Lets look at the numbers.

Assuming L10

IMP 2-M hover tank:
UC : 10
DPS : 2101
Health: 42000
DPS/UC : 210
Health/UC : 4200
Range: 8

Rebel AAT1 Hover
UC : 9
DPS : 1908
Health : 40500
DPS/UC : 212
Health/UC : 4500
Range : 6

The units are very comparable. No clear cut winner here.
DPS/UC is about the same.
Rebel has slightly better health/UC, but lacks in range. Makes sense. More health is needed as the unit takes more damage before getting into shooting range.

This is again the case when the grass appears greener on the other side.
A rebel player claimed IMP unit was better.
An IMP player claimed rebel unit was better.

Lesson learned: don’t listen to single faction player as their view is often biased. LOL.


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lukeskywalker
Admiral
Posts: 516

Re: Unbalanced Rebel Vehicles vs underpowered Empire vehicles: the mid-game.

Post#18 » Fri Nov 29, 2019 12:01 pm

DarthStrutter wrote:
Shelendil wrote:Here's another thread full of misinformation.

The AT-AP shoots 4 times and takes 10 UC.
The AT-MP shoots 6 times and takes 15 UC.
The dps per unit capacity is virtually identical (373 vs 372).

The AAT and 2-M also have almost identical dps per UC (219 vs 226), but the 2-M has 2 more range, which is a very significant advantage.

Wherever you're getting your facts from is wrong.



Things have never been equal. Rebels have super jets and imperials had sniper GR until the rebels complained and now have sharpie GR as well. The point the guy is making is imperials are supposed to have the better vehicles and he claims we do not. I do know the rebel TX is stronger than the imperial TX. At least Zynga has fixed the jumps. But the point is there were differences but there was also balance. Now since the rebels have complained twice they now more advantages than the imperials, that's another point.


Just curious, do you have both rebel and Imperial bases? Quoting stats for specific units is not really meaningful IMO, especially when quoting just some of the stats. I have bases in both factions, and I just don't see a difference. If there's one unit that jumps out at me a bit, it's the skinned MHC on Hoth for Imperial bases. Been on both sides of that one. That said, it's one planet and one unit and MHC's are awfully slow. If you do have bases in both factions, have you really experienced a difference? If you don't have bases in both factions, IMO the stats are not the be all end all gauge, once you experience actual game play in both factions. The AI and other factors are really what comes into play in PvP and wars. As the others have said, you learn the units pro's and con's and adjust. The end result is a good base in either faction wins, with very similar end results.
lukeskywalker
Leader
Squad: onewiththeforce
Squad Level: 50

We are always looking for active players. We have a squad of 20+ members, and we war at least once a week. We have maxed out our Perks. We like helping new players, so all players are welcome!


Oldrebel
Captain
Posts: 79

Re: Unbalanced Rebel Vehicles vs underpowered Empire vehicles: the mid-game.

Post#19 » Fri Nov 29, 2019 5:44 pm

DarkRebel wrote:
Oldrebel wrote:
DarthStrutter wrote: I do know the rebel TX is stronger than the imperial TX.

Wrong... Imp TX has better health and damage, and two tiles more range.


Lets look at the numbers.

Assuming L10

IMP 2-M hover tank:
UC : 10
DPS : 2101
Health: 42000
DPS/UC : 210
Health/UC : 4200
Range: 8

Rebel AAT1 Hover
UC : 9
DPS : 1908
Health : 40500
DPS/UC : 212
Health/UC : 4500
Range : 6

The units are very comparable. No clear cut winner here.
DPS/UC is about the same.
Rebel has slightly better health/UC, but lacks in range. Makes sense. More health is needed as the unit takes more damage before getting into shooting range.

So... look at the last statement I quoted, in bold. Reality is opposite.
UC difference is insignificant here, as is health/UC or DPS/UC.
Health/UC means squat when the thing has to get within 6 tiles of turrets that have a range of 9 or more. Your turrets are hitting my TX while it is still moving the last 3 or 4 tiles. My turrets are hitting your TX within 1 or 2 tiles of movement. That's a huge difference at slow speed, with obstacles. Rebel unit takes way more damage before doing anything.
From your figures:
Imp: 42000 health, range 8
Reb: 40500 health, range 6

But, you are quoting unskinned stats.
Let's compare samples, which are usable in war:
Imp: 67200 health, 8240 dps, range 8.
Reb: 64800 health, 7487 dps, range 6.

Imps get equal jets, even though rebel infantry was always intended to be better. Imp "stolen" vehicles are equal to Reb vehicles. But, in most/all cases, Rebel "stolen" vehicles are inferior.
I WANT faction differences, it makes for challenges and interesting game play. Just boosting jets because of the current meta is farcical, especially being slapped in the face with turret differences.
Then there is the hero AT-TE... Not an option for most Rebs, since frags are non-existant. Hero AT-AT upgradeable via credits. That's why one is used in pretty much every war replay I've ever seen, along with a couple of shield bombers, to take out the squad center. The juggernaut is usually not a great option, in this case the additional speed coupled with less range means it's not as effective and trips defense.


DarkRebel
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1391

Re: Unbalanced Rebel Vehicles vs underpowered Empire vehicles: the mid-game.

Post#20 » Fri Nov 29, 2019 9:18 pm

Oldrebel wrote:
DarkRebel wrote:
Oldrebel wrote:Wrong... Imp TX has better health and damage, and two tiles more range.


Lets look at the numbers.

Assuming L10

IMP 2-M hover tank:
UC : 10
DPS : 2101
Health: 42000
DPS/UC : 210
Health/UC : 4200
Range: 8

Rebel AAT1 Hover
UC : 9
DPS : 1908
Health : 40500
DPS/UC : 212
Health/UC : 4500
Range : 6

The units are very comparable. No clear cut winner here.
DPS/UC is about the same.
Rebel has slightly better health/UC, but lacks in range. Makes sense. More health is needed as the unit takes more damage before getting into shooting range.

So... look at the last statement I quoted, in bold. Reality is opposite.
UC difference is insignificant here, as is health/UC or DPS/UC.
Health/UC means squat when the thing has to get within 6 tiles of turrets that have a range of 9 or more. Your turrets are hitting my TX while it is still moving the last 3 or 4 tiles. My turrets are hitting your TX within 1 or 2 tiles of movement. That's a huge difference at slow speed, with obstacles. Rebel unit takes way more damage before doing anything.
From your figures:
Imp: 42000 health, range 8
Reb: 40500 health, range 6

But, you are quoting unskinned stats.
Let's compare samples, which are usable in war:
Imp: 67200 health, 8240 dps, range 8.
Reb: 64800 health, 7487 dps, range 6.

Imps get equal jets, even though rebel infantry was always intended to be better. Imp "stolen" vehicles are equal to Reb vehicles. But, in most/all cases, Rebel "stolen" vehicles are inferior.
I WANT faction differences, it makes for challenges and interesting game play. Just boosting jets because of the current meta is farcical, especially being slapped in the face with turret differences.
Then there is the hero AT-TE... Not an option for most Rebs, since frags are non-existant. Hero AT-AT upgradeable via credits. That's why one is used in pretty much every war replay I've ever seen, along with a couple of shield bombers, to take out the squad center. The juggernaut is usually not a great option, in this case the additional speed coupled with less range means it's not as effective and trips defense.

Is it that difficult to understand that you can’t simply compare units without considering their UC ?
You whined about eATTE frags. Same thing for astromedic. Bet you didn’t know this.

I play both factions. I don’t believe that you do.

There is actually an imbalance in the game, favoring IMP at the moment. I play both sides. I know.

IMP has 2 key advantages.
- Conflict advantage due to dev base availability. This results in IMP players, in general, accumulate frags faster than rebels. Today game is all about armory skin/frags, so having higher level skin or unlock/level up key units can be a significant advantage in PVP.
- IMP heroes with skins are generally better than rebels.

The other unit differences are minor. Other than the 2 key areas above, the balance is actually pretty good. Not worth whining about.


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