The Game Is Just About Dead

General topics, questions, suggestions, bugs, or anything Star Wars Commander related.
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CoolGuy
Admiral
Posts: 621

The Game Is Just About Dead

Post#1 » Tue May 14, 2019 4:39 pm

Haven't been attacked for over a week. Haven't attacked a real base for over a week.

Nobody is attacking me because there are easy dev bases. I don't attack real bases because the reload time would be 30 minutes to an hour.

The issues have been spelt out for Zynga for many months now without any action, but I'll say them again:

1. Dev bases for all players on all planets with exactly the same reward, but reduce the loot and conflict points to a minimal amount, say 10k/10k/1k and 100 conflict points. This forces people to attack real bases to get loot and good conflict points.

2. Reduce the capability of GR and turrets to make attacking real bases more possible. And to counter the lack of real bases from attacks reduce protection time to say 3/6/9 hours.

3. Widen the matchmaking system by making it just HQ vs HQ, totally removing base score and medals from the equation. Perhaps two HQs up and one HQ down for level 10 bases and below. This kills the desirability for people to medal dump and sandbag.

Open to discussion and constructive criticism.
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DeathStriker
Moderator
Posts: 5900

Re: The Game Is Just About Dead

Post#2 » Tue May 14, 2019 5:14 pm

CoolGuy wrote:...

CoolGuy - While I don't necessarily agree with Topic Title, the points you made are valid.

Here are my thoughts...

  1. Yes we need Dev Bases for all Players to prevent CNFO's especially if / when they change the PvP Matchmaking Algorithm. As for the "Loot Amounts" I think they still need to scale with the Players Level but perhaps make it so you will need 10 Attacks to equal what 1 Attack currently provides.
  2. Offensive "balance" needs to be achieved so that on "average" a Player attacking another Real Player (not a Dev Base) has a good possiblity (with proper deployment of Units and use of Strategy) of getting 3-Stars 60% of the time without the need for SC, and Starship Strikes. Currently, for HQ 6+ that is not the case, due to the overwhelming "defensive" nature of the current game. As a solution, either GR and Turrets need to be "Nurfed" to align with current Unit Damage Values or as I prefer Units "Buffed" to counter current GR and Turret Damage Values.
  3. On the Zynga Survey I did propose a change of the PvP Matchmaking Algorithm to eliminate the Base Score + Medal Count Method and use a new Method where a Player from HQ 3 to HQ 10 would see Opponents 1 HQ Level Up to a maximum of 2 HQ Levels down, or put simply a "range" of 3 to 4 HQ Levels. **Note HQ 10 can't attack 2 Levels Up as stated in your Post.
Let the discussion continue...
 
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mkenobi
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1384

Re: The Game Is Just About Dead

Post#3 » Tue May 14, 2019 6:36 pm

This kind of discussion already were made many many times, but it's okay if you want to start another thread about the same thing again.

We know Devs did nothing about it. Or maybe they did, they gave a new unit that you can upgrade now buying crates and at the higher levels can help you to win against the big monster bases full of high level GR and maxed out buffed turrets -- if you pay for that.

But it won't change anything for most of players. Game is dead because PvP is dead because every one that needs to attack real bases now is like a dead man walking.

1 -- If you reduce too much the loot on Dev bases, only to forces looters to attack live bases, soon every live base will be under protection at least for 8h. Dev bases must keep enough loot to help Prestige players to pay the upgrades. If every one attacks live bases for loot, and don't win, the loot will be reduced for the next attacker, and so on until someone defeats you. Reduce loot by half or 1/3 on Dev base might be a better option. And Dev bases with 1060 gears while most live bases give only 700 gears in conflicts it's unreal.

2 -- Game should be for offense not defense. Ban the GR for good. I don't care how many Crates everyone bought or how long they played to upgrade GR. Ban this crap and reduce the buff for all turrets.

3 -- Prestige shouldn't complain about matchmaking because there aren't no one above them, but only the players running bases at low levels that fights rivals 2-3 levels above their bases. For them the game is also dead because the matchmaking will keep broken while Devs don't remove stupid criteria as medals and base score.

My HQ 8 Rebel only fights 10s and Prestige because it's maxed out with 9k medals. Great lesson learned: maximize your defenses and you are dead, keep collecting medals and you are dead, do both things and you are so fucking dead that is better you leave SWC and go play CS.
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Werowe4
Captain
Posts: 83

Re: The Game Is Just About Dead

Post#4 » Tue May 14, 2019 7:16 pm

CoolGuy wrote:Haven't been attacked for over a week. Haven't attacked a real base for over a week.

Nobody is attacking me because there are easy dev bases. I don't attack real bases because the reload time would be 30 minutes to an hour.

The issues have been spelt out for Zynga for many months now without any action, but I'll say them again:

1. Dev bases for all players on all planets with exactly the same reward, but reduce the loot and conflict points to a minimal amount, say 10k/10k/1k and 100 conflict points. This forces people to attack real bases to get loot and good conflict points.

2. Reduce the capability of GR and turrets to make attacking real bases more possible. And to counter the lack of real bases from attacks reduce protection time to say 3/6/9 hours.

3. Widen the matchmaking system by making it just HQ vs HQ, totally removing base score and medals from the equation. Perhaps two HQs up and one HQ down for level 10 bases and below. This kills the desirability for people to medal dump and sandbag.

Open to discussion and constructive criticism.

1) I'd be open to removing dev bases entirely but if they were to be kept, they should be worth no conflict points and the loot should be reduced to 10% of what they currently stockpile.

2) I disagree and think that the GR/turret equips are pretty reasonable currently (maybe cap them at their lvl 8 equipment values?); it just requires more thought/strategy with deployment to get over them (side note, maybe increase the time before you have to pass/launch your attack by another 15-20 seconds to allow for more pre-attack planning). Because of this, in my opinion, most players (even the ones that prefer pvp attacks) avoid them during conflicts since they're just there to grind to hit the conflict levels/event points needed and don't want to really think about it. I'm down for reducing the protection time though. I think reducing it (perhaps it can be scaled by HQ level) to the max droideka repair time + 30 minutes would be fair.

3) While I agree that the matchmaking system can probably be tweaked, I don't like it being solely focused on HQ level. I don't really have a good fix in mind but I think some kind of formula that takes into account the following factors would be best (haven't thought too much about factor weighing for each btw): base strength; medal count; HQ level; unit researched level (or an average), and equipment researched level (or an average).
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Werowe4
Captain
Posts: 83

Re: The Game Is Just About Dead

Post#5 » Tue May 14, 2019 7:30 pm

DeathStriker wrote:
CoolGuy wrote:...

CoolGuy - While I don't necessarily agree with Topic Title, the points you made are valid.

Here are my thoughts...

  1. Yes we need Dev Bases for all Players to prevent CNFO's especially if / when they change the PvP Matchmaking Algorithm. As for the "Loot Amounts" I think they still need to scale with the Players Level but perhaps make it so you will need 10 Attacks to equal what 1 Attack currently provides.
  2. Offensive "balance" needs to be achieved so that on "average" a Player attacking another Real Player (not a Dev Base) has a good possiblity (with proper deployment of Units and use of Strategy) of getting 3-Stars 60% of the time without the need for SC, and Starship Strikes. Currently, for HQ 6+ that is not the case, due to the overwhelming "defensive" nature of the current game. As a solution, either GR and Turrets need to be "Nurfed" to align with current Unit Damage Values or as I prefer Units "Buffed" to counter current GR and Turret Damage Values.
  3. On the Zynga Survey I did propose a change of the PvP Matchmaking Algorithm to eliminate the Base Score + Medal Count Method and use a new Method where a Player from HQ 3 to HQ 10 would see Opponents 1 HQ Level Up to a maximum of 2 HQ Levels down, or put simply a "range" of 3 to 4 HQ Levels. **Note HQ 10 can't attack 2 Levels Up as stated in your Post.
Let the discussion continue...

Ok, I've seen this comment various times on the forum but I haven't ever really needed to employ my sc troops offensively to get 3-star wins. Starships, sure, but not always will I need the full set of starships either. I really only use my sc troops offensively when I misplay and need reinforcements to avoid losing an attack. On defense, I frequently see players drop their sc troops as a part of their attack and then end up generally losing to my base's defenses, not because my base's defenses are so overwhelming (while I'm very proud of my admittedly fine tuned layout, the equips active on defense are lvls 6 to 7 only so nothing too OP) but because their deployment (and line-up generally as well) was not optimal for my base which they were attacking. Further, on those occasions when I lose defenses, those attacks generally (maybe 50-60% of the time) don't use sc troops. Basically, I really just think it's a planning/strategy issue rather than one of gameplay balance.
Also, if the game were to be tweaked, I don't think that defenses should be nerfed simply to allow for more 3 star wins. Instead, increase the medal/gear reward incrementally for 1 and 2 star wins and (as I mentioned in my previous comment) remove the dev bases/their incentive. The "grind" mentality would thus, in my opinion, be significantly reduced and players would be rewarded/more incentivized to launch/plan successful attacks on actual players. It might also break the jet/jump meta that currently prevails too.

Just my thoughts and, yes, I know you both are higher up than me in experience and medal count.
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Ghostie
Major General
Posts: 253

Re: The Game Is Just About Dead

Post#6 » Tue May 14, 2019 7:34 pm

CoolGuy wrote:Haven't been attacked for over a week. Haven't attacked a real base for over a week.

Nobody is attacking me because there are easy dev bases. I don't attack real bases because the reload time would be 30 minutes to an hour.

The issues have been spelt out for Zynga for many months now without any action, but I'll say them again:

1. Dev bases for all players on all planets with exactly the same reward, but reduce the loot and conflict points to a minimal amount, say 10k/10k/1k and 100 conflict points. This forces people to attack real bases to get loot and good conflict points.

2. Reduce the capability of GR and turrets to make attacking real bases more possible. And to counter the lack of real bases from attacks reduce protection time to say 3/6/9 hours.

3. Widen the matchmaking system by making it just HQ vs HQ, totally removing base score and medals from the equation. Perhaps two HQs up and one HQ down for level 10 bases and below. This kills the desirability for people to medal dump and sandbag.

Open to discussion and constructive criticism.




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bob1084
Commodore
Posts: 146

Re: The Game Is Just About Dead

Post#7 » Tue May 14, 2019 8:28 pm

Every time this is brought up the same answer is the key. YOU HAVE TO HAVE DEV BASE FOR NO CNFO..... SO-add GR, turret skins and sc troops to them. Change nothing in terms of what they give for loot or conflict points. Simple fix on the devs part.

The problem with doing this is the faction that has been fed these crap bases have never learned just how hard it is to consistently hit actual bases. And maybe would see just how idiotic this whole GR mess is


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lukeskywalker
Major General
Posts: 375

Re: The Game Is Just About Dead

Post#8 » Tue May 14, 2019 10:21 pm

CoolGuy wrote:Haven't been attacked for over a week. Haven't attacked a real base for over a week.

Nobody is attacking me because there are easy dev bases. I don't attack real bases because the reload time would be 30 minutes to an hour.

The issues have been spelt out for Zynga for many months now without any action, but I'll say them again:

1. Dev bases for all players on all planets with exactly the same reward, but reduce the loot and conflict points to a minimal amount, say 10k/10k/1k and 100 conflict points. This forces people to attack real bases to get loot and good conflict points.

2. Reduce the capability of GR and turrets to make attacking real bases more possible. And to counter the lack of real bases from attacks reduce protection time to say 3/6/9 hours.

3. Widen the matchmaking system by making it just HQ vs HQ, totally removing base score and medals from the equation. Perhaps two HQs up and one HQ down for level 10 bases and below. This kills the desirability for people to medal dump and sandbag.

Open to discussion and constructive criticism.


From my perspective, HQ levels should be just a part of the matchmaking formula if at all. My level 9 routinely trashes most level 9 bases. I'm getting matched up with level 10 and Prestige bases now, because of medal count. I now need to really think my attacks out to 3 star. I think this is a good thing, since I get more gears from higher level bases. However, I understand that casual players who have lower armory levels may struggle with this scenario. Therein lies the problem.

I'm open to changing from medal count to player rank. The player rank is probably more accurate than either HQ level or medal count, especially after medal gate. You may get burned by wallet warriors, who buy their way to high armory levels, but for the most part the player rank tells you how much time a player has invested and in turn what their armory level is like. At the end of the day, the only factor that really determines PvP success is the armory levels and specialty units.

That said, every change that I have ever seen recommended, can be exploited. Gamer's like exploiting weaknesses don't they? Every good player in this game exploits armory advantages, multipliers, special troops & vehicles, etc. You make matchups all about HQ levels, and watch players exploit the armory differences. At least with medal count impacting matchmaking, the medal dumpers need to work twice as hard as other players, to get to easier matchups.
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strawman3125
Admiral
Posts: 670

Re: The Game Is Just About Dead

Post#9 » Wed May 15, 2019 5:11 am

CoolGuy wrote:Haven't been attacked for over a week. Haven't attacked a real base for over a week.

Nobody is attacking me because there are easy dev bases. I don't attack real bases because the reload time would be 30 minutes to an hour.

The issues have been spelt out for Zynga for many months now without any action, but I'll say them again:

1. Dev bases for all players on all planets with exactly the same reward, but reduce the loot and conflict points to a minimal amount, say 10k/10k/1k and 100 conflict points. This forces people to attack real bases to get loot and good conflict points.

2. Reduce the capability of GR and turrets to make attacking real bases more possible. And to counter the lack of real bases from attacks reduce protection time to say 3/6/9 hours.

3. Widen the matchmaking system by making it just HQ vs HQ, totally removing base score and medals from the equation. Perhaps two HQs up and one HQ down for level 10 bases and below. This kills the desirability for people to medal dump and sandbag.

Open to discussion and constructive criticism.


LOL! People have been saying that this game is dead for the last 3+ years! Yet here we are still talking about it...

1.
DEV Base Gears: Changing dev base gears is not a solution! The only real solution with dev bases is to turn on armory skins. Dev bases should be exactly the same as far as difficultly in beating as a player base. Then the gears are appropriate and there isn't this massive divide in difficulty between attacking players and attacking dev bases.

Dev Base Resource rewards: You can't JUST reduce dev bases rewards. Player bases do not generate enough resources to allow all prestige level bases to do their one prestige upgrade every week and a half just by resource generation. If you reduce the dev base resources you also need to increase the player base resource generation, say by a factor of 10.

2. Turrets NEED to be nerfed, GR seems fine to me. I do not remember the last time that I lost to a base with all 5 armory slots used for GR. It's like Christmas when I find those bases! It's the glowing burst turrets and the sonics that cause me grief.

3. I agree with making the matching algorithm HQ lvl vs HQ lvl but not with removing the base score and the medals. Removing base score and medals from the algorithm would just enable maxed out bases at a particular HQ lvl (such as yourself) to attack players that just got to that level and are no match at all , ie clubbing baby seals. I am not sure how that would make the game better. Using medals is not good either because players can medal dump. I would suggest using base score and total frags collected. This game really comes down to "he who has the most frags wins" so the matching algorithm should use the number of frags.


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Jaykoz3
Commodore
Posts: 144

Re: The Game Is Just About Dead

Post#10 » Wed May 15, 2019 8:38 am

This happens EVERY time there is an EP event....more players are actively playing, therefore there aren't as many "live" bases available to attack. This is why you are seeing more dev bases. Also, in the crunch to earn EP and bonus crates most players would rather attack dev bases to get EP faster.

It's not very difficult to understand.

But hey.......keep crying wolf!


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