Star Wars Episode IX - The Rise Of Skywalker - Discusson Topic

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LosVega
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Re: Star Wars Episode IX - The Rise Of Skywalker - Discusson Topic

Post#191 » Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:21 am

Before i get to the point of my like or dislike for TROS, a bit of a personal retrospect. I got into Star Wars fandom well after the release of episode IV. I remember the full page ads for it but never got around to seeing it in the theater nor hearing much about it. A couple of years later it was re-released shortly before TESB. I found it to be very entertaining and had George Lucas stopped there, i would have been satisfied. Now my interest is piqued because this is all brand new to me. Movies with sequels, characters with more depth, a hero's journey to borrow the phrase. I saw episode V opening weekend and was hooked! Episode VI involved camping out overnight in front of the Uptown Theater in DC to be one of the first ones to see it. The effort was well worth it despite the ewoks.

Now fast forward to the prequels, enough said of that.

TFA? Decent but overall disappointing because it's an updated "New Hope" with more action than character development. TLJ? I have so much bitterness toward that movie that i can't stand it. I hope the only way Rian gets close to another SW project is if they need a janitor because that's all he's good for.

TROS. I found it to be satisfying but neither the prequels nor this last installment could bring back the excitement of seeing ESB or ROTJ. Given the years between all of them, it would be quite a miraculous feat if it did. TROS ties up everything in a nice bow if you can look past the obvious plot holes and suspend disbelief to the nth degree. My only contentions are:

1. Palpatine survived his "death" in ROTJ. Makes sense to close out the series but it seems like an act of desperation as well as a repeat. Also brings to mind that if Palpatine was that powerful, could he have healed Anakin from his injuries or was that his way of controlling him to avoid the typical Sith apprentice succession path. Basically i didn't see that one coming.

2. Rey and Kylo force powers overplayed and overpowered. I do recall reading of a force endowed character being able to pull a empire destroyer from orbit to the planet ground but wasn't expecting that to be done on a smaller scale.

3. J.J. Abrams borrowed a bit from "Lost" as to the ending of everything on Tattoine since that's where it all began. I don't have a problem with it personally but it could be open to critique as another rehash amongst a series of them throughout the last three movies.

I have more but it's just not worth it to pick over it. I enjoyed it for what it was, closure to the Skywalker's saga.
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mkenobi
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Re: Star Wars Episode IX - The Rise Of Skywalker - Discusson Topic

Post#192 » Thu Jan 02, 2020 5:02 am

DeathStriker wrote:
RedCDR wrote:Star killer base has been revealed to be Ilum which was where the Jedi order used to get all there Kyber crystals from. I guess hollowing out the planet gave them stockpiles of kyber. Makes the new republic seem even more incompetent though to just sit out from engaging the first order when the first order was sitting on and developing a known planet full of planet killing material. Jedi fallen order seems to suggest star killer base was been developed by the empire from at least 14 bby which means it took 53 years to be operational.

A BIT OFF TOPIC but...

:arrow: Click here for an additional "source" for info that Star killer base has been revealed to be Ilum.

Good point about Starkiller, a fan theory can be better than canon, and some soon or later become canon because they are the right explanation most of the time.

What bothers me most is that TROS is the fourth Death Star-related SW movie in one way or another, and the fifth movie if you think of Starkiller as a kingsize Death Star. Here are a few - just a few - questions from TROS regarding the presence of the Death Star in the movie and the Sith Wayfinders - that make no sense to me because...

...the Sith Dagger shows the exact point in the destroyed Death Star where the Sith Wayfinder is - how if the dagger was built before the Death Star was built but shows exactly the position of the Death Star to the Wayfinder after it was destroyed??? Or did I miss something here and the inscriptions were carved later???
The Death Star has been totally destroyed as you can see below...

Image

...then I can't imagine how something has survived like a piece so large that it includes the Throne Room where the Wayfinder is and any starfighter launch pad...
...where Kylo Ren now Ben Solo found a Tie Fighter in perfect condition after 35 years and flew to Exegol, but how did that survive the explosion??? How did Kylo get to Exegol so fast if Tie Fighters of that time didn't have hyperdrive???
And the Death Star was orbiting the Endor's Forest Moon, and if there was any wreckage it should have fallen into the Endor's Forest Moon and not into Endor's Ocean Moon!

It seems obvious that the guys at Disney didn't even bother to watch the original movies. And now everytime I rewatch Return of the Jedi I will remember that there's a Sith Wayfinder in Palps Throne Room, and probably he is hiding the dagger under his robe...

There's also a theory of Palpatine being Anakin's father, as he manipulated midichlorians to create life inside Shmi, and if Palps is Anakin's father, Rey is Ben's aunt, and there are NO Skywalkers, only Palpatines! I was waiting something like that to happen in TROS, but someone at Lucasfilm must have flushed it before anyone at Disney thought it was a good idea.

I need a new Marvel movie urgently to clear my mind of all this crap... :lol:
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ObiWanKenobi2016
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Re: Star Wars Episode IX - The Rise Of Skywalker - Discusson Topic

Post#193 » Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:07 am

LosVega wrote:My only contentions are:

1. Palpatine survived his "death" in ROTJ. Makes sense to close out the series but it seems like an act of desperation as well as a repeat.


Definitely an act of desperation. They had a new and interesting villain in Snoke, but of course, Johnson killed him off in TLJ. His resurrection in TROS undermines the OT.

LosVega wrote:
2. Rey and Kylo force powers overplayed and overpowered. I do recall reading of a force endowed character being able to pull a empire destroyer from orbit to the planet ground but wasn't expecting that to be done on a smaller scale.

I'm pretty sure that was part of an ending in a Star Wars game. Lucas said that these were 'canon' a long time ago. It was then re-done in one of the Star Wars EU novels involving Vader.

There were also some books on jedi & Sith abilities that Lucas said were canon. However, like with TLJ's force projection/ ghost it was a stupid idea in the book and looked even more stupid in a movie. These were bad ideas that should never have been used in a movie.

LosVega wrote:3. J.J. Abrams borrowed a bit from "Lost" as to the ending of everything on Tattoine since that's where it all began. I don't have a problem with it personally but it could be open to critique as another rehash amongst a series of them throughout the last three movies.


Ending a story in the same place as where it started is one of the three elements of Aristotlean drama. That's a well established technique in story telling. We can't criticise Abrahms for that. We have so many better things to criticise him for, apart from his effort. He clearly tried very hard to right the wrongs of TLJ. For that I think we should give him some credit.
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mkenobi
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Re: Star Wars Episode IX - The Rise Of Skywalker - Discusson Topic

Post#194 » Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:20 am

ObiWanKenobi2016 wrote:
LosVega wrote:My only contentions are:

1. Palpatine survived his "death" in ROTJ. Makes sense to close out the series but it seems like an act of desperation as well as a repeat.


Definitely an act of desperation. They had a new and interesting villain in Snoke, but of course, Johnson killed him off in TLJ. His resurrection in TROS undermines the OT.

LosVega wrote:
2. Rey and Kylo force powers overplayed and overpowered. I do recall reading of a force endowed character being able to pull a empire destroyer from orbit to the planet ground but wasn't expecting that to be done on a smaller scale.

I'm pretty sure that was part of an ending in a Star Wars game. Lucas said that these were 'canon' a long time ago. It was then re-done in one of the Star Wars EU novels involving Vader.

There were also some books on jedi & Sith abilities that Lucas said were canon. However, like with TLJ's force projection/ ghost it was a stupid idea in the book and looked even more stupid in a movie. These were bad ideas that should never have been used in a movie.

LosVega wrote:3. J.J. Abrams borrowed a bit from "Lost" as to the ending of everything on Tattoine since that's where it all began. I don't have a problem with it personally but it could be open to critique as another rehash amongst a series of them throughout the last three movies.


Ending a story in the same place as where it started is one of the three elements of Aristotlean drama. That's a well established technique in story telling. We can't criticise Abrahms for that. We have so many better things to criticise him for, apart from his effort. He clearly tried very hard to right the wrongs of TLJ. For that I think we should give him some credit.

Rey is not a Skywalker - not unless you accept that she has the essence of Ben Solo, who was in fact a Skywalker, inside her - so going to Tatooine doesn't make any sense to her when there are better planets where she can live. If she's only there to bury the lightsabers, it doesn't make sense either because Luke hated Tatooine and couldn't wait to get out of there, and Leia was on Tatooine to rescue Han from Jabba's Palace and has no connection with the planet. Better to bury the lightsabers in Ahch-To or keep them as a souvenir.

Ending the saga where it began, not only in A New Hope, but also in The Phantom Menace, since Tatooine is Anakin Skywalker's home planet, it was much more to create a sense of nostalgia for fans of the original trilogy, since the prequel fans had more interesting planets to enjoy and Tatooine was not one of them. Tatooine was also used as a background in an episode of The Mandalorian for the same sentimental reasons.

Palpatine having survived was no surprise, it was an old fan theory. Luke threw himself into the well of Cloud City, and rolled until he came out through a manhole! But Palpatine claims to Kylo that he has died "once", so he is resurrected, or is speaking metaphorically, symbolically.

From the start, no one took Emo Kylo Ren seriously, no one, and Snoke could have been the trilogy villain if Johnson didn't think splitting him in half was a genius idea. Star Wars has always prized for presenting interesting villains in the saga - Darth Maul, Grievous, Jabba, Boba Fett, Krennic, Dooku, just talking about the movies - you wouldn't want to bump into any of them in a dark alley, and the new trilogy needs resort to a resurrected OT villain because of the 3 main villains (Phasma, Snoke, Kylo Ren - and even Hux before he switched sides) none of them honored the tradition.

These new powers have been exploited in books, comics and games, and some have been relegated to Legends, and have now become canon thanks to what we saw in the Disney trilogy - which doesn't mean that they are convincing, like Force Bond (better than Skype as it allows you to send objects and not just talk or be seen!!!), Force Projection (that can kill those who practice it?!?!?!), Force Healing (also used by Baby Yoda in The Mandalorian) and Force Transfer.
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DesertPyramid
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Re: Star Wars Episode IX - The Rise Of Skywalker - Discusson Topic

Post#195 » Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:50 am

Were the tubes around Papaltine cloning tubes showing partially grown units? Perhaps his original body didn’t survive. Not restoring Vader with a new body would keep him angry/dark-side longer.

If I had to guess, Maz got the old lightsaber in trade from an Ugnaught who found it on Bespin before the evacuation.

As for Rey becoming a Skywalker... effectively Luke’s adopted daughter. Her name pointed to this happening from the beginning with a slight misspelling. If Luke (and Leia) was/are A New Hope for the rebellion, she became the Ray/Rey (of Hope) for the new rebellion with what he and Leia taught. Bad pun, I know. Still was recognizable early from EP VII.
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Jax
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Re: Star Wars Episode IX - The Rise Of Skywalker - Discusson Topic

Post#196 » Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:54 pm

I think they gave us the wrong new cantina item from this movie. Instead of the horse thing, the snow mobile/speeder that ejected jumpers would have been it for me.


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Forceisweaknyou
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Re: Star Wars Episode IX - The Rise Of Skywalker - Discusson Topic

Post#197 » Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:16 pm

Jax wrote:I think they gave us the wrong new cantina item from this movie. Instead of the horse thing, the snow mobile/speeder that ejected jumpers would have been it for me.

GREAT idea
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ObiWanKenobi2016
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Re: Star Wars Episode IX - The Rise Of Skywalker - Discusson Topic

Post#198 » Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:35 pm

mkenobi wrote:Rey is not a Skywalker - not unless you accept that she has the essence of Ben Solo, who was in fact a Skywalker, inside her - so going to Tatooine doesn't make any sense to her when there are better planets where she can live. If she's only there to bury the lightsabers, it doesn't make sense either because Luke hated Tatooine and couldn't wait to get out of there, and Leia was on Tatooine to rescue Han from Jabba's Palace and has no connection with the planet. Better to bury the lightsabers in Ahch-To or keep them as a souvenir.


Agreed. The movie should not have been called Rise of Skywalker. No Skywalker rose to do anything. As I said above, it should have been called Redemption of the Palpatine bloodline.

mkenobi wrote:These new powers have been exploited in books, comics and games, and some have been relegated to Legends, and have now become canon thanks to what we saw in the Disney trilogy - which doesn't mean that they are convincing, like Force Bond (better than Skype as it allows you to send objects and not just talk or be seen!!!), Force Projection (that can kill those who practice it?!?!?!), Force Healing (also used by Baby Yoda in The Mandalorian) and Force Transfer.

I think we agree on this.
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mkenobi
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Re: Star Wars Episode IX - The Rise Of Skywalker - Discusson Topic

Post#199 » Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:42 pm

If there is a hell where all the Sith go, from the bottom of my heart, I hope Kathleen Kennedy, Rian Johnson and everyone involved in this stupid trilogy will burn there for eternity.

No more going back, it's over, and in the worst way possible. TFA wasn't so painful to see, but TLJ ruined my entire childhood and 42 years of magic in just 2h30min, and TROS ruined the rest of my life with such bullshit that if I lived longer than Yoda I wouldn't be able to get over it.

Well, when there are no more tears to cry, then laugh:

https://screenrant.com/star-wars-9-rise ... hilarious/
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TKTB51
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Re: Star Wars Episode IX - The Rise Of Skywalker - Discusson Topic

Post#200 » Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:57 pm

regarding Papa Palpatine, they've ignored the fact that Johnson fucked himself, so why couldn't Palps?
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