Medal Dumping - Discussion Topic

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Ghostie
Squadron Leader
Posts: 19

Re: Medal Dumping - Discussion Topic

Post#161 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:13 pm

Even though we were playing for one helluva unit in last conflict I believe medal dumping may have also played a role in those UC gears going through the roof. Sandbaggers are always gonna be part of game each to there own as I have learned over the years.
Status: Collecting Rebel scalps planet by freakin' planet!


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CoolGuy
Major General
Posts: 357

Re: Medal Dumping - Discussion Topic

Post#162 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:27 pm

Ghostie wrote:Even though we were playing for one helluva unit in last conflict I believe medal dumping may have also played a role in those UC gears going through the roof. Sandbaggers are always gonna be part of game each to there own as I have learned over the years.

If Zynga have been reading the forum and apply the simple fix we have all been requesting the Day of the Sandbaggers will be over. If matchmaking is purely HQ level vs HQ level then the SWC world will be a better place. No place to hide your Prestige base with 2 turrets and no traps then.
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Ghostie
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Posts: 19

Re: Medal Dumping - Discussion Topic

Post#163 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:32 pm

CoolGuy wrote:
Ghostie wrote:Even though we were playing for one helluva unit in last conflict I believe medal dumping may have also played a role in those UC gears going through the roof. Sandbaggers are always gonna be part of game each to there own as I have learned over the years.

If Zynga have been reading the forum and apply the simple fix we have all been requesting the Day of the Sandbaggers will be over. If matchmaking is purely HQ level vs HQ level then the SWC world will be a better place. No place to hide your Prestige base with 2 turrets and no traps then.



AGREE 1OO%

Its been going on for so long guess I just accepted it as normal now.
Status: Collecting Rebel scalps planet by freakin' planet!


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Midge
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1140

Re: Medal Dumping - Discussion Topic

Post#164 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:58 pm

It will still happen. People will just stay at level 6 until they have enough frags for everything.

And, seriously, we can only have same level HQs hitting same levels? Nothing like only hitting the same 14 bases all the time.

All these problems stem from a much greater issue than the algorithm ... the lack of players is the largest issue.

Sandbaggers and even dumbass medal dumpers are so far down the list of problems with the game that prevent it from growing.
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CoolGuy
Major General
Posts: 357

Re: Medal Dumping - Discussion Topic

Post#165 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:19 pm

Midge wrote:
And, seriously, we can only have same level HQs hitting same levels? Nothing like only hitting the same 14 bases all the time.


If you can attack at your level and above you should get sufficient bases. There are sandbagging Prestige bases that a level 8 or 9 could beat.

Even for me on max medals (approx 161k) there is a reasonable variety of bases, but if it was opened up to HQ vs HQ the pool would be a lot larger.
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strawman3125
Major General
Posts: 284

Re: Medal Dumping - Discussion Topic

Post#166 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:25 pm

I think the HQ change would be fine but it would probably hurt the bottom line, dollar wise, as they probably make a lot of money from people rushing their bases to HQ11 and this change would promote staying at each HQ until it's maxed out.

There are a ton of problems right now!

Some that come to mind are:
1. Frags are the ultimate goal and only 2% of people can get UC in conflicts
2. you need as many frags as possible as new gear/units are competing with maxed out old gear and units, so ideally you would like to not only unlock the new gear but also get it to level 3-5 in the initial conflict, otherwise you have to wait years for the next chance to acquire frags
3. everyone competes for that same 2% BUT different players face different difficulties so it's much easier for some than others
4. right now the only way to compete for multiple 2% is to:
a. attack dev bases
b. sandbag base score
c. dump medals
d. be VERY skilled and already have your gear maxed out
5. not everyone gets dev bases so if you stop b & c then those players are zcrewed

Really if you want everyone to compete for the same 2% then everyone needs to face the same difficulty level otherwise it is not a fair playing field. It's almost impossible to make it a fair playing field for all players in all situations at all HQ levels, at all base score, at all medal counts, etc.

And then on the other hand you get players who only want to face challenging opponents and that's fine, but if you also want to compete in the 2% UC when you are facing challenging opponents and others are facing normal opponents then you are at a disadvantage...

So many variables...

Oh well, m,y medal dumped account HQ9 gained 7000 medals in this conflict and it is now only being matched up with HQ11 bases that it cannot easily 3 star so it's time to start dumping those medals before the next conflict starts!


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lukeskywalker
Commodore
Posts: 200

Re: Medal Dumping - Discussion Topic

Post#167 » Wed Feb 06, 2019 7:50 pm

strawman3125 wrote:I think the HQ change would be fine but it would probably hurt the bottom line, dollar wise, as they probably make a lot of money from people rushing their bases to HQ11 and this change would promote staying at each HQ until it's maxed out.

There are a ton of problems right now!

Some that come to mind are:
1. Frags are the ultimate goal and only 2% of people can get UC in conflicts
2. you need as many frags as possible as new gear/units are competing with maxed out old gear and units, so ideally you would like to not only unlock the new gear but also get it to level 3-5 in the initial conflict, otherwise you have to wait years for the next chance to acquire frags
3. everyone competes for that same 2% BUT different players face different difficulties so it's much easier for some than others
4. right now the only way to compete for multiple 2% is to:
a. attack dev bases
b. sandbag base score
c. dump medals
d. be VERY skilled and already have your gear maxed out
5. not everyone gets dev bases so if you stop b & c then those players are zcrewed

Really if you want everyone to compete for the same 2% then everyone needs to face the same difficulty level otherwise it is not a fair playing field. It's almost impossible to make it a fair playing field for all players in all situations at all HQ levels, at all base score, at all medal counts, etc.

And then on the other hand you get players who only want to face challenging opponents and that's fine, but if you also want to compete in the 2% UC when you are facing challenging opponents and others are facing normal opponents then you are at a disadvantage...

So many variables...

Oh well, m,y medal dumped account HQ9 gained 7000 medals in this conflict and it is now only being matched up with HQ11 bases that it cannot easily 3 star so it's time to start dumping those medals before the next conflict starts!


Well said. The complexity is why the issue will be hard to resolve. Clash of Clans also has some of the same issues. A lot of smart people are involved in the gaming industry. The problems either do not have viable solutions or the money factor is outweighing fairness issues. Though that may have long-term consequences.

I'm beginning to think the player ranking needs to be factored in, along with HQ. The player ranking factors in how active and to some degree how skilled a player is. If you have a higher ranking (more offensive & defensive wins), you have probably played a lot and/or a long time or have won at an efficient rate. That player has probably accumulated a lot of frags, and therefore should be matched up accordingly. A rushed level 10 would face some consequences for rushing up, but the lower player rank would adjust to some degree. The player rank can't be gamed. You win, you move up. Simple.

That said, the player rank or other options do not get rid of the level playing field issues (dev bases, faction imbalances, etc.). The level playing field issue will be the most difficult to resolve. Having conflicts makes no sense, if players don't have a level playing field or an option to level the playing field.
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TNT
Admiral
Posts: 542

Re: Medal Dumping - Discussion Topic

Post#168 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:48 am

Just do 1 HQ lvl above and 1 HQ lvl below and use Basescore, medals and (as lukeskywalker suggest) player rank to fine tune within those boundaries.

There are so many facets to this problem.

Ultimately though, in this case I assume it's the dev bases.
People are actively hunting them and who can blame them. You can choose a target that needs everything and the kitchen sink with a high risk of failure or you can attack a target that needs a part load with minimal risk of failure.
If half the population is attacking dev bases for quick and easy victories and the other half aren't, then other half are at a massive disadvantage.
Barring a few exceptions, I can't imagine anyone with a job ranking in the 2% going only after live bases.
I was even visited by multiple medal dumpers mid conflict. (thanks!) :lol: It starting to feel like more and more people are medal dumping to be able to see dev bases.

In a rare case of Midge making sense (well done!), there are too few players spread over too many planets which makes it easy to find dev bases.

The conflict structure was made around an offensive game, but technically the game has switched to being defensive a long time ago. Except for the players who can find dev bases as they can still play the offensive game and have an easier time than ever before.

Either review the structure of the conflicts or rebalance dev bases/live bases either directly:
- Remove planets to consolidate players
- Make dev bases tougher
or indirectly:
- Fix the armory!
Join the OuterRimRioters. Is what I would say, but we're almost full at the moment. :) A big happy family. If you are interested in joining you're more than welcome to drop by as long as we still have room.


strawman3125
Major General
Posts: 284

Re: Medal Dumping - Discussion Topic

Post#169 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:15 am

Some thoughts:
- another issue with dev bases is that I use a completely different troop load out for dev bases so if I'm looking for dev bases there is NO WAY that I will hit a player base because my current troop load cannot beat a player base
- the matching algorithm already restricts attacks to 1 base level below so the the only change there would be to also restrict to 1 base level above, which I think would be a very positive change
- as long as you still consider base score in the matching algorithm you will still have mini bases hitting only mini bases (easy) and maxi bases hitting only maxi bases (harder)
- if you include medals or rank or time played, etc. in the matching algorithm you are penalizing your best and most loyal payer base (given the current the conflict/event reward system); eventually each player is going to hit a wall where they can no longer compete in conflicts and events as they are matched up against opponents that are just too challenging and then they quit (besides: most of those wins are against dev bases and as long as you are facing dev bases you are fine but the second you start facing players you are already way beyond your skill level)
- I do not think that the planets are the problem... the devs are already creating fake bases to be atacked (copied player bases, aka dev bases) the issue here is that the dev bases are easier because they do not have the armouries turned on, all they need to do to fix the dev base problem (and the perceived planet problem) is to turn the armouries on for the dev bases and maybe have a random chance for there to be units in the SC, then everyone is facing equally challenging opponents
- defense has become overly powerful, I remember before GR came out I was easily getting non-stop 3 star wins every 8-10 minutes and then GR came out and winning an attack was almost impossible, until jets/jumps and then I was back to getting endless 3 star wins but now, when attacking players,at your skill level, 3 star wins are challenging and the take 1.5 hours rather than 8-10 minutes, but you can still do dev bases every 8-10 minutes
-rewards based on difficulty, rewards should be based on difficulty, if a player needs to spend 1.5 hours cooking full air support to beat a difficult player base they should be rewarded with a lot more gears than a player that spent 5 minutes cooking units to attack an easy dev base...
-rewards based on time, HQ 6 bases an fill their transports and attack other HQ6 bases in less than 5 minutes but HQ11 takes 15 minutes to fill their transports, so HQ11s should be getting roughly 3 times as many gears per win to make the reward for time cost about the same across HQ levels
- defensive objectives/rewards should be independent of offensive objectives/rewards. ie if the defensive player does 50% damage to the attacking player, they get a 1 star 'win', 75% gives a 2 star and 100% a 3 star regardless of what the attacker gets. This way it would be possible for the attacker to get a 3 star AND the defender to get a 2 star (or the other way around). And the defensive reward should be based on attackers strength vs defender strength and equal to the attackers reward rather than being half of what the attacker gets. If the game balance shifts back to attackers winning 3 stars most of the time then a lot of players will completely abandon building defense and this reward will encourage players to build a defense.

Some suggestions:
1. Turn the armouries on for dev bases
2. Make offense more powerful or nerf defense
3. Only allow the matching algorithm to match you 1 level higher than your HQ level (it's already limited to 1 level lower)
4. Greatly reduce or limit the affect that base score has on matching (or remove it completely)
5. Greatly reduce or limit the affect that medals have on matching (or remove it completely)
6. Reward offensive wins based on difficulty and time - higher rewards for facing more difficult bases and for higher HQ levels
7. Reward defense independently of offense and at an equal level
8. Have two attack buttons: 1. I want a completely random opponent 2. I want a challenging opponent - where #1 is for completely equalized (no base score and no medals taken into account, just HQ) matching for conflicts and events and 2 is for players that just want to fight challenging opponents


Shelendil
Admiral
Posts: 909

Re: Medal Dumping - Discussion Topic

Post#170 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:29 am

Midge wrote:It will still happen. People will just stay at level 6 until they have enough frags for everything.

And, seriously, we can only have same level HQs hitting same levels? Nothing like only hitting the same 14 bases all the time.

All these problems stem from a much greater issue than the algorithm ... the lack of players is the largest issue.

Sandbaggers and even dumbass medal dumpers are so far down the list of problems with the game that prevent it from growing.


If they stay at level 6, then their planetary command is only level 2, limiting them to three planets. I'm ok with that.
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