Medal Dumping - Discussion Topic

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lukeskywalker
Major General
Posts: 426

Re: Medal Dumping - Discussion Topic

Post#131 » Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:16 am

A level 5 in our squad was thrilled when they beat a Prestige base. I had a good laugh. My level 5 test base does the same. They are 2-4 turret dev bases. Any chance level 7's might be seeing those too? Those bases usually have both Sentinel's and Oppressors, and might look like a real base to a beginner. Just a thought.
lukeskywalker
Leader
Squad: onewiththeforce
Squad Level: 50

We are always looking for active players. We have a squad of 20+ members, and we war at least once a week. We have maxed out our Perks. We like helping new players, so all players are welcome!


strawman3125
Admiral
Posts: 724

Re: Medal Dumping - Discussion Topic

Post#132 » Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:24 am

Shelendil wrote:I also wanted to add that in order for you to be seeing prestige bases as a level 7, they must have approximately 0 medals. So they are the medal dumpers, and they are creating a problem for you and any other new players out there.


I can't speak for HQ7, but my HQ8 bases start to see Prestige bases, exclusively, at around 4,000 medals.

When I do get DEV bases they are also either FULLY MAXED OUT HQ10 or Prestige bases which are almost impossible to 3 star given that they usually have 8+ sonics and I do not have heal ships yet. So it's not just players that are medal dumping, it's ALL bases that you face.

Again, the real problem isn't medal dumping, people at prestige are medal dumping to solve a problem that they are facing, which is the actual problem, that defense is way over powered and it's almost impossible to play the game when facing all bases with glowing bursts and sonics. (Sure a few highly skilled players are capable of playing in the current situation and everybody else is forced to either give up playing or medal dump.) Fix the game so that people do not NEED to medal dump and very few people will actually medal dump. Medal dumping actually takes a LOT of extra time and I certainly would not be doing it if I did not NEEDED to. (It would also be nice if the max level up that you are forced to face is 1.)


DarkRebel
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1245

Re: Medal Dumping - Discussion Topic

Post#133 » Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:25 am

Yep, we need the pendulum to swing back to the offense side ...
The defensive players have had their run long enough. Now we want them to hide :)
Too many bases with flashing barracks (deeply buried inside base), and flashing bursts. I am sure the best players can beat them but likely need a good load of air and SC drop. The game should allow average attacking player to beat average player base.

I am not objecting against the burst multiplier against jumps/jets swarm, but give us something good to defeat bursts.

At the same time though, medals should be factored in a lot less than they are today. We don't want L8-9 with 10K-30K medals having to face L10-P bases either. Skill can't compensate for the big gap in base rating.


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lukeskywalker
Major General
Posts: 426

Re: Medal Dumping - Discussion Topic

Post#134 » Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:39 am

DarkRebel wrote:Yep, we need the pendulum to swing back to the offense side ...
The defensive players have had their run long enough. Now we want them to hide :)
Too many bases with flashing barracks (deeply buried inside base), and flashing bursts. I am sure the best players can beat them but likely need a good load of air and SC drop. The game should allow average attacking player to beat average player base.

I am not objecting against the burst multiplier against jumps/jets swarm, but give us something good to defeat bursts.

At the same time though, medals should be factored in a lot less than they are today. We don't want L8-9 with 10K-30K medals having to face L10-P bases either. Skill can't compensate for the big gap in base rating.


Too many things happening in the game today, which make medals a very weak basis for matchmaking. Medal gate and medal dumping are two of them. At one point in time, I'm sure there was sound logic behind using medals. Great players would accumulate them faster and would be elevated to higher level matchups and weak players would be matched with similarly skilled players. The waters have been muddied too much now.

Even base scores need to be re-evaluated in matchmaking. However, a large percentage of the player population could be negatively impacted if they can't get fair matchups, with fair being a relative term that includes armory and skill levels. Getting to level 8 is a quick process. Probably 2-6 months for most. Just because you get there doesn't mean you are ready for it. That's the challenge. What keeps the game working for the majority or can the game be designed to satisfy both serious and casual players?

Possibly tiers factoring in total attack & defensive wins and winning percentage, along with HQ level? Tier 1 would be serious players, tier 2 mid level players, tier 3 casual players. Each tier would be competing only against others in their tier in conflicts for top 2%. I would be ok with crossing over tiers in PvP matchmaking, but you would not earn conflict points in those instances. Not sure if the player pool is large enough to accommodate this, so that might mean even more dev bases.
lukeskywalker
Leader
Squad: onewiththeforce
Squad Level: 50

We are always looking for active players. We have a squad of 20+ members, and we war at least once a week. We have maxed out our Perks. We like helping new players, so all players are welcome!


DarkRebel
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1245

Re: Medal Dumping - Discussion Topic

Post#135 » Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:37 pm

lukeskywalker wrote:
DarkRebel wrote:Yep, we need the pendulum to swing back to the offense side ...
The defensive players have had their run long enough. Now we want them to hide :)
Too many bases with flashing barracks (deeply buried inside base), and flashing bursts. I am sure the best players can beat them but likely need a good load of air and SC drop. The game should allow average attacking player to beat average player base.

I am not objecting against the burst multiplier against jumps/jets swarm, but give us something good to defeat bursts.

At the same time though, medals should be factored in a lot less than they are today. We don't want L8-9 with 10K-30K medals having to face L10-P bases either. Skill can't compensate for the big gap in base rating.


Too many things happening in the game today, which make medals a very weak basis for matchmaking. Medal gate and medal dumping are two of them. At one point in time, I'm sure there was sound logic behind using medals. Great players would accumulate them faster and would be elevated to higher level matchups and weak players would be matched with similarly skilled players. The waters have been muddied too much now.

Even base scores need to be re-evaluated in matchmaking. However, a large percentage of the player population could be negatively impacted if they can't get fair matchups, with fair being a relative term that includes armory and skill levels. Getting to level 8 is a quick process. Probably 2-6 months for most. Just because you get there doesn't mean you are ready for it. That's the challenge. What keeps the game working for the majority or can the game be designed to satisfy both serious and casual players?

Possibly tiers factoring in total attack & defensive wins and winning percentage, along with HQ level? Tier 1 would be serious players, tier 2 mid level players, tier 3 casual players. Each tier would be competing only against others in their tier in conflicts for top 2%. I would be ok with crossing over tiers in PvP matchmaking, but you would not earn conflict points in those instances. Not sure if the player pool is large enough to accommodate this.

High medal players have always had to face uphill battle, even in the old day.
Just that back then, the medal cap was much lower (I think the top player was capped at 23K for max level base), so the medal count, while factored into the match making formula, did not weigh in as much. The much lower medal cap indirectly limited the impact of medal on match making. 10K medal was considered high medal player and had to face bases 1 level higher. Most players have medals 1-2K. As an active player back then, I frequently hit the medal cap and didn't like it but I didn't know that the low medal cap actually protected me from having to face much higher level bases during my progress.
After that, after significant complaints from players, DEVs decided to significantly raise the medal cap to a much higher value but they never went back to re-evaluate the impact of high medal count on match making.


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sneakyzapper
Major General
Posts: 376

Re: Medal Dumping - Discussion Topic

Post#136 » Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:06 pm

Even attack and defence wins can be diluted due to people getting dev base attacks in, or having medal dump defence wins.

It's hard to tell anything anymore.

A max medal player not playing for a year can lose a lot of medals over time and that does not mean anything. They are still whatever skill they are. Just inactivity can reduce their medals.

26,4587 attacks won, 523 defences won here. How many of those were medal dump defence wins?

How many were dev base attacks? No clue. Those numbers should not be taken at face value. Same with rank. 29 here.

That can be collected if people just want to get medals and rank on easy dev base worlds 24/7 or whatever they feel a want to get to.

Medals are hard to lose and easy to get I think personally. Reversed of what i've heard. Once you get them they are stuck on you.

Until capped or you dump them again due to not playing for a while or just dump them by choice.

I don't look at medals as any value never have. Don't think that will change.

Attacks and defence won seem more reliable even if its dev bases in them, or free wins.

Research levels, Armory gear levels, ect should be used for more fair matching.

A low level base with max gear can be a hidden advantage for sure. Easy to cut through bases with the right gear.


strawman3125
Admiral
Posts: 724

Re: Medal Dumping - Discussion Topic

Post#137 » Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:05 am

sneakyzapper wrote:A max medal player not playing for a year can lose a lot of medals over time and that does not mean anything. They are still whatever skill they are. Just inactivity can reduce their medals.


Actually you do not lose a lot when not playing... I took a 6 month break at the beginning of last year and I lost less than 1000 medals (from 45000). I did not even have any defensive armoury items enabled. The protection prevents you from being attacked too frequently and they take your base out of rotation after 2-3 months.

One of my complaints about the medal system in this game is that it is not autocorrecting. In other games that I play if I collect too many medal (equivalents) and I go above my skill level, I quickly get knocked back down to my skill level, within a few days to a week or two, but in this game it is almost impossible to lose enough medals to get back down to your actual skill level.


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mkenobi
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1464

Re: Medal Dumping - Discussion Topic

Post#138 » Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:29 pm

strawman3125 wrote:
Shelendil wrote:I also wanted to add that in order for you to be seeing prestige bases as a level 7, they must have approximately 0 medals. So they are the medal dumpers, and they are creating a problem for you and any other new players out there.


I can't speak for HQ7, but my HQ8 bases start to see Prestige bases, exclusively, at around 4,000 medals.

When I do get DEV bases they are also either FULLY MAXED OUT HQ10 or Prestige bases which are almost impossible to 3 star given that they usually have 8+ sonics and I do not have heal ships yet. So it's not just players that are medal dumping, it's ALL bases that you face.

Again, the real problem isn't medal dumping, people at prestige are medal dumping to solve a problem that they are facing, which is the actual problem, that defense is way over powered and it's almost impossible to play the game when facing all bases with glowing bursts and sonics. (Sure a few highly skilled players are capable of playing in the current situation and everybody else is forced to either give up playing or medal dump.) Fix the game so that people do not NEED to medal dump and very few people will actually medal dump. Medal dumping actually takes a LOT of extra time and I certainly would not be doing it if I did not NEEDED to. (It would also be nice if the max level up that you are forced to face is 1.)

That's the point:

If you are HQ 7 or HQ 8 maxed out (all defense maxed out) and have just a few medals (like about 1k medals) you will be match with bases higher than you, like 1 level above. But if you keep collecting medals above 4k, you will be match with bases 2-3 levels above you.

My HQ 8 Rebel is maxed out with 8k medals, and all rivals are 10 and Prestige. Even Dev bases (when I used to find them, not finding them anymore) are 10 and Prestige with full Sonics/Bursts farms. I won't drop medals because is a dead base now, I only use it to donate Jets and play wars.

My Rebel HQ 6 is also maxed out and usually all rivals are HQ 7 even if the medals are low, like less than 2k. If the medals are high, like 5k at the end of a conflict, I finish fighting HQ 8. Then I need to drop medals to 500 to start to find HQ 6s again, and keep droping medals everytime the level of rivals increases too much.

If you don't want to ruin your game experience, don't max out your base at HQ 7 and HQ 8 -- don't build any trap since the starting because traps have highest weight for base strength and become useless at HQ 8 when everyone only uses Jets/Jumps. And drop medals, there is no other way to survive in the matchmaking now.
SWC Windows survivor.

Imperial Prestige / Rebel Prestige on vacation and trying new games.
If you are Rebel join "Solo's_Band" (war squad) or "Ewok_revenge" (training squad)


Shelendil
Admiral
Posts: 989

Re: Medal Dumping - Discussion Topic

Post#139 » Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:41 pm

The lower levels are having to sandbag because the higher levels are sandbagging. Trickle down.
ShadyRebels24
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geoman48
Admiral
Posts: 518

Re: Medal Dumping - Discussion Topic

Post#140 » Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:02 pm

Disney dropped 70K medals from me counting Windows and the recent medal gate... I prefer to drop medals the old fashion way... getting bored with Prestige attacks and starting a new account. I purposefully have kept 1 of my accounts below HQ8 (will not go HQ8 until my research center is inactive for 1 week) because i like forcing myself to attack without jumps/jets. I also like to force myself NOT to attack with squad center troops or airpower. Glutton for punishment? Yes. Does it help my squad war attacks by not relying on crutches like SC and airpower? Also yes. Is this my fav game of all time? Probably a close 2nd to Civilization in terms of time spent. I hope nobody reminds me any time soon that I'm wasting my life away on SWC.

By the way, don't you get annoyed by people that answer their own questions? Me too. Those people are really annoying. Move along, move along...
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