Medal Dumping - Discussion Topic

General topics, questions, suggestions, bugs, or anything Star Wars Commander related.
Boog
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1391

Re: What is medal dumping?

Post#11 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:57 pm

Medals were a measure of skill on the Windows platform, where there were no dev bases and where you would have to fight your way to 20 stars to get off of a nightmare planet filled with the choice of cnfo or attacking a base above your level. On this platform, medals don't really mean anything. Just look at the leaderboards in any conflict, you see players with 100 attack wins and ~100,000 gears. That is a strong indicator they've attacked 100 dev bases for 1000 gears each. That takes no skill at all, just a determination to farm dev bases and empty medals for an inequitable gear reward.


User avatar
CoolGuy
Major General
Posts: 420

Re: What is medal dumping?

Post#12 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:59 pm

I disagree vehemently with the concept of dumping medals. Your medal level is a mark of your experience and skill as a player. If you choose to dump medals to get easier matches then you defeat the whole purpose of the game.
Windows refugee with the Rogue Ewok group. Killing the Empire since 2015.
Come and visit us at RogueEwokReturn


User avatar
lukeskywalker
Commodore
Posts: 215

Re: What is medal dumping?

Post#13 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:45 pm

ImperialDeathStar wrote:
strawman3125 wrote:
Medals do not have anything to do with player skill...

These days medals are easy to get and harder to lose!


What twisted logic! You must be a decent level to earn 5,000 medals in a week of defensive wins alone. You certainly won't be level 5, right? Of course medals are a measure of player skill! You know, I know it.

And of course medals are harder to earn than lose. To earn those defensive wins you'll have spent time requesting troops for SC, and many months upgrading base and perfecting its layout! To lose medals you just have to fail, not succeed!


Actually medals are a combination of skill, playing time in months/years, volume, quality of opponent, strategies like medal dumping, frequency playing dev bases, unforeseen circumstances like losing medals due to dev errors, crystals bought, armory levels, etc. etc. etc. Our squad has two level 9 players with about 9K in medals, both with a roughly equal number of wins. Same or not? NOT! One player is vastly superior to the other. One makes up the difference with 4-5 times the amount of playing time and volume. He asks for squad center help on almost every attack and can't take down a base a level below him in wars even with Tako or Tat and often face plants with zero to one uplink. The other never asks for squad center help unless it's for defense on PvP attacks or in wars when his level 8 and now 9 base takes down a Prestige base. The skilled player is in every war. The other is included in some wars, just as a courtesy as being part of the squad. Nice guy, so I hate even bringing up this example.

I think people are pinning too much value to one metric. I understand the pride factor, but I hope those people step back and look at this objectively. Also for the health of the swc community, since we are effectively asking lesser skilled players or new players who could develop over time, to swim upstream and just suck it up.

To really compare two players, you would need to see their medal counts after the same number of hours played vs. the same quantity and quality of opponents, in the same era. I can't compare Ty Cobb's lifelong stats at age 30 vs. Mike Trout's lifelong stats at age 25. Not only has one had more time to accumulate the stats, but they did not play under the same circumstances. Even if I had the same numbers as a Windows player, I can't say I'm as good. I don't know what that Windows player went through. Did the crystal payout for transition give that player an unfair advantage or was the transition a detriment? He won't know what I went through coming on board shortly before the introduction of the guard reserve. Learning the game, and then having that change occur was rough. However, I can't say it was rougher than what a Windows player went through or what a player starting now has to go through. I am learning the later though, since I am starting a new base. Even then, I have a huge advantage of hindsight vs. a real newbie starting their first base.

Just food for thought.
lukeskywalker
Leader
Squad: onewiththeforce
Squad Level: 50

We are always looking for active players. We have a squad of 20+ members, and we war at least once a week. We have maxed out our Perks. We like helping new players, so all players are welcome!


DarkRebel
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1088

Re: What is medal dumping?

Post#14 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:59 pm

CoolGuy wrote:I disagree vehemently with the concept of dumping medals. Your medal level is a mark of your experience and skill as a player. If you choose to dump medals to get easier matches then you defeat the whole purpose of the game.

+1
Though, DEVs need to adjust match making logic to significantly lessen the impact of medal count in selecting the pool of bases to match.

Right now, match making logic weighs too much on medals.

The rate of medal dumping at my IMP base (by rebel players) is alarming. 90% of the last 20 attacks were for dumping medals.

I take the medals, thank you, but the game seems broken that players needed to do this to enjoy the game.


User avatar
lukeskywalker
Commodore
Posts: 215

Re: What is medal dumping?

Post#15 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:02 pm

CoolGuy wrote:I disagree vehemently with the concept of dumping medals. Your medal level is a mark of your experience and skill as a player. If you choose to dump medals to get easier matches then you defeat the whole purpose of the game.


I don't think everyone agrees on the purpose of the game, so we can't even argue about why dumping medals is good or bad. It's apples and oranges, and really is a non issue for me. Do what makes the game enjoyable. You believe it's bad because you believe the purpose of the game is to match pure skills and medals are a 100% indicator of success. I don't believe there's a level playing field, because time, money, when you started the game, armory levels, and dozens of other reasons muddy the waters. I see the purpose of the game as being to have fun. If it's not fun, why play? Since we all have different reasons for playing and what we consider fun, there should be different ways to play it to achieve that goal. The game does that. It provides options, but you need to fully understand those options to determine what the ideal path is. Some people will say a car is just transportation and others will say it's a symbol of prestige. I don't see any point in either side arguing which is right, since they are not having the same argument.

The only way to test player skill is with each using the same level troops, turrets, and structures. I don't think that will happen. There's no money incentive on the part of the devs, to go down that road. In fact, they use that pride factor to drive spending. In the end, from a devs perspective, the whole purpose of the game is to make money which means appealing to as many possible and providing carrots to drive spending. Bragging rights is a carrot, so this argument shows they are succeeding.
lukeskywalker
Leader
Squad: onewiththeforce
Squad Level: 50

We are always looking for active players. We have a squad of 20+ members, and we war at least once a week. We have maxed out our Perks. We like helping new players, so all players are welcome!


User avatar
CoolGuy
Major General
Posts: 420

Re: What is medal dumping?

Post#16 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:51 pm

There's another flaw in the medal dumping concept - during the last GR Sniper round I had one medal dumper on Tako who hit me all the time. Now while he was dumping to get easier matches my medal and conflict point count was increasing, to the point where I got UC on Tako primarily with defensive wins. So medal dumping by somebody else just makes me stronger and harder to beat, and therefore increasing the pool of tougher opponents. You can't compete against stronger players if you deliberately make them stronger.
Windows refugee with the Rogue Ewok group. Killing the Empire since 2015.
Come and visit us at RogueEwokReturn


User avatar
lukeskywalker
Commodore
Posts: 215

Re: What is medal dumping?

Post#17 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:20 pm

CoolGuy wrote:There's another flaw in the medal dumping concept - during the last GR Sniper round I had one medal dumper on Tako who hit me all the time. Now while he was dumping to get easier matches my medal and conflict point count was increasing, to the point where I got UC on Tako primarily with defensive wins. So medal dumping by somebody else just makes me stronger and harder to beat, and therefore increasing the pool of tougher opponents. You can't compete against stronger players if you deliberately make them stronger.


There are so many reasons why this is not applicable to all players or why this cannot be argued right or wrong. You assume they are competing with you. Some play for the PvP, some play to win UC's that will ultimately make them stronger, some play just for fun, others may play for hundreds of different reasons. Some play as if they just enjoy using banthas or pathfinders and that's fun for them. If they are competing for UC crates, do they really care if they give points to the top 1% or bottom 98%, as long as they end up in the other 1% that qualifies for the UC crate or even 6 UC crates? Would the players who play just for fun care? Even the players on this board, represent just a fraction of the players in the game. They could give a damn what we think. I also think many dump between conflicts or on non-conflict planets.

This is like the Indian Poem Blind Men and the Elephant. We are sharing thoughts, but neither of us is looking at the same part of the picture.

Blind Men and the Elephant – A Poem by John Godfrey Saxe
Here is John Godfrey Saxe’s (1816-1887) version of Blind Men and the Elephant:

It was six men of Indostan,
To learning much inclined,
Who went to see the Elephant
(Though all of them were blind),
That each by observation
Might satisfy his mind.

The First approach'd the Elephant,
And happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side,
At once began to bawl:
God bless me! but the Elephant
Is very like a wall!

The Second, feeling of the tusk,
Cried, -Ho! what have we here
So very round and smooth and sharp?
To me 'tis mighty clear,
This wonder of an Elephant
Is very like a spear!

The Third approach'd the animal,
And happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands,
Thus boldly up and spake:
I see, -quoth he- the Elephant
Is very like a snake!

The Fourth reached out an eager hand,
And felt about the knee:
What most this wondrous beast is like
Is mighty plain, -quoth he,-
'Tis clear enough the Elephant
Is very like a tree!

The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear,
Said- E'en the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most;
Deny the fact who can,
This marvel of an Elephant
Is very like a fan!

The Sixth no sooner had begun
About the beast to grope,
Then, seizing on the swinging tail
That fell within his scope,
I see, -quoth he,- the Elephant
Is very like a rope!

And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right,
And all were in the wrong!

To argue right and wrong on sandbagging, we would need to agree on the purpose of this game. I don't think either of us would even agree on that, because it's clear from the points being made that we are looking at different parts of the Elephant.
lukeskywalker
Leader
Squad: onewiththeforce
Squad Level: 50

We are always looking for active players. We have a squad of 20+ members, and we war at least once a week. We have maxed out our Perks. We like helping new players, so all players are welcome!


User avatar
lukeskywalker
Commodore
Posts: 215

Re: What is medal dumping?

Post#18 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:46 pm

While I don't think we can argue right or wrong, or more so see the point in arguing right or wrong on sandbagging, I do believe it works for very specific goals. It makes it possible for players who are not skilled to enjoy the game for a longer period of time, since it allows them to re-calibrate their opponent levels if they have hit their ceiling. Not everyone has the same ceiling. It also works for players who want to compete for UC crates, but want to do it in less than 1 hour a day. There are dozens of other reasons, which I think make sense. It's no different than attacking dev bases or collecting frags to gain an edge over your opponents. It's just an edge that is there to exploit for specific purposes. It's possible Zynga changes the matchmaking algo and players will go in two different directions. Leave the game or adjust. If it was not working, people would not get upset. I also don't understand what is to be gained by trying to get people to play the game the way you see it vs. them playing the game for the reasons they like to play the game.

For what it's worth, I took the hardest professors I could find in college because of the challenge and I thought it would make me better. Others took the easiest because they wanted to get the best grades for future jobs. Both paths work and both paths can fail. Others didn't go to college and may have done better than all of us combined. In the end, everyone had the choice to take the path they felt best for them. This is just a game. Have fun and help others by providing insight into what options they have! Don't force them down your path or mines. I'm taking five paths!
lukeskywalker
Leader
Squad: onewiththeforce
Squad Level: 50

We are always looking for active players. We have a squad of 20+ members, and we war at least once a week. We have maxed out our Perks. We like helping new players, so all players are welcome!


User avatar
ImperialDeathStar
Commander
Posts: 37

Re: What is medal dumping?

Post#19 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:02 am

CoolGuy wrote:I disagree vehemently with the concept of dumping medals. Your medal level is a mark of your experience and skill as a player. If you choose to dump medals to get easier matches then you defeat the whole purpose of the game.


Totally agree.


TNT
Admiral
Posts: 551

Re: What is medal dumping?

Post#20 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:11 am

CoolGuy wrote:I disagree vehemently with the concept of dumping medals. Your medal level is a mark of your experience and skill as a player. If you choose to dump medals to get easier matches then you defeat the whole purpose of the game.

It's probably weird that I say this considering I already admitted to keeping my medals at a certain lvl. But I agree with this. (except the part where medals are a mark of experience and skill, they may have used to be such, but aren't anymore.)

CoolGuy wrote:There's another flaw in the medal dumping concept - during the last GR Sniper round I had one medal dumper on Tako who hit me all the time. Now while he was dumping to get easier matches my medal and conflict point count was increasing, to the point where I got UC on Tako primarily with defensive wins. So medal dumping by somebody else just makes me stronger and harder to beat, and therefore increasing the pool of tougher opponents. You can't compete against stronger players if you deliberately make them stronger.


And this is one of the reasons why I agree with the sentiment against medal dumping. As more people start medal dumping the difference between non medal dumpers and medal dumpers increases and the matchmaking problems only get worse.
In addition, the reason people medal dump is to get easier matchups. However if everyone starts doing then at some point the effect of medal dumping will decrease as well. In the long term I see medal dumping as damaging to the game.

Medal dumping is hard work because winning defenses is very easy (even against the full prestige loadouts I keep facing).
I don't enjoy doing it one bit, I still do it though.
I find that at 20k I can find dev bases on all planets with a few skips, but I also find plenty of real bases (of my hq lvl) to tangle with. This in turn allows me with limited time to keep up in conflicts.

I dropped to 20K due a long period of inactivity following the sniper/medic/rodian skins Guard Reserve/Imperial rapid farm debacle. Down from the 30k-40k at lvl8-9(I never cared for medals so I have no idea what my exact number was) I used to have and I have found my game to be much more enjoyable since then. So unless they fix the risk/reward in pvp I will probably keep my medals around that lvl.


The notion that you become a worse attacker in wars if you medal dump is wrong though. War attacks are in no way comparable to pvp. PVP is bait followed by jets and TX spam.
War is carefully planning the distribution of your units to take out all buildings, traps and sc.
If anything, going after dev bases (which you can find easier with lower medals) without buffs as I occasionally do is much better practice.



I join the hope that Zynga will fix the balance in the game in such a way that I can go back to never caring about my medals again.
Join the OuterRimRioters. Is what I would say, but we're almost full at the moment. :) A big happy family. If you are interested in joining you're more than welcome to drop by as long as we still have room.


Return to “General Discussions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 30 guests