War!!!

General topics, questions, suggestions, bugs, or anything Star Wars Commander related.
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lukeskywalker
Major General
Posts: 370

Re: War!!!

Post#11 » Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:24 pm

I forgot to mention. I would add a base score component to the matchmaking algorithm. It would not make sense for our lower level players to get matched up against a level 400 squad playing all their top players. But factoring in both squad rank and base score, may make sense. Then in wars with our top players, we would be matched against similar squads while accounting for the players selected to be in the war. The same if we go with a lower level lineup.
lukeskywalker
Leader
Squad: onewiththeforce
Squad Level: 50

We are always looking for active players. We have a squad of 20+ members, and we war at least once a week. We have maxed out our Perks. We like helping new players, so all players are welcome!


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lukeskywalker
Major General
Posts: 370

Re: War!!!

Post#12 » Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:36 pm

I did the same exercise for the squad we beat 45-15, with a squad rank of 3471. Here's the result tally:

Score Squad Ranks
17-45 ……………. 3471-831
18-44 ……………. 3471-936
15-45 ……………. 3471-405
26-45 ……………. 3471-577
19-45 ……………. 3471-451
9-45 ……………. 3471-464
16-42 ……………. 3471-1602
22-43 ……………. 3471-2519
9-45 ……………. 3471-464
41-30 ……………. 3471-2197

They are getting beat up by squads in the top 1000. Their only win came vs. a level 2197 squad.
lukeskywalker
Leader
Squad: onewiththeforce
Squad Level: 50

We are always looking for active players. We have a squad of 20+ members, and we war at least once a week. We have maxed out our Perks. We like helping new players, so all players are welcome!


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geoman48
Admiral
Posts: 513

Re: War!!!

Post#13 » Sat Dec 22, 2018 6:49 am

lukeskywalker wrote:They are getting beat up by squads in the top 1000. Their only win came vs. a level 2197 squad.


I've been in lopsided wars like this (both sides). People get irritated very easily when they have no chance of winning and bored when they have no (realistic) chance of losing.
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Spirit
Major General
Posts: 368

Re: War!!!

Post#14 » Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:18 am

Always lots of good discussion about squad wars on here.
I
My own view for war (and pvp) is that hq should be the only factor in the algorithm. So in pvp , a lev8 should face a lev8. If someone has only just upgraded hq, then they should be facing more developed bases but of same hq lev and expect to be hit hard.
For war, total up all 15 HQs.
It would stop sandbagging and some of the silly matches we get now.
Player name Dog. Biting rebs across the galaxy.


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lukeskywalker
Major General
Posts: 370

Re: War!!!

Post#15 » Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:52 am

I am good with using some combination of either squad rankings or HQ levels. They both have distinct advantages over base score, which only approximates defensive strength and does not factor in offensive strength very much. I think war matchups, at least the bad one's in the eyes of participants, comes down to three problems. The number of squads within each level that are participating, differences in skill level, and how active the squads are.

I think squad rankings capture skill level and activity level more than HQ does, and might make the most sense. It takes some combination of activity and/or skill to accumulate medals which in turn affects your squad ranking. It's a simple number that factors in both to some degree, acknowledging that sandbaggers might circumvent the system. The number of participating squads within each level will be difficult to fix. I went through a lot squad matchups through KSOD, and it seems clear there are more top 1000 squads in wars that those outside the top 1000. Quick and dirty math says it's about 10 to 1.

The only suggestion I can think of, is to have an option to select any matchup or a quote fair matchup only. If you select any matchup, the matchup process will go through it's selection process until it exhausts all options and will force a matchup. The fair matchup option, will only match a squad with a similar squad ranking. If it can't find a fair matchup based on that criteria, it would boot you out of the cue after X amount of hours. You don't go to war if that happens, and you are out of luck.

After looking through the various matchups our squad and other squads are seeing, it's clear to me that my squad does not have any issues currently with matchups. Why? Because we have a big pool of squads to matchup with. There are more squads playing in wars that are in the top 1000 in squad rankings than there are outside of the top 1000. Even though the actual algorithm uses base scores, I suspect squads in the top 1000 have similar base scores, war participation levels, squad mix, etc. Therefore, they are matched up frequently. The squads outside of the top 1000 will rarely see another similar squad, and the matchmaking algo continues until it runs out of options. The only other option is a top 1000 squad. Bingo ... lopsided loss for the lower ranked squad.

The squads participating are to blame and not the matchmaking system. The only option for squads outside the top 1000 right now, is launch a war and if there's no matchup within the first 15 to 30 minutes, cancel. You need to live with not having a war if that happens, not because the matchmaking is bad. It's because there are no other squads at your level, that are currently available to play. I don't know how you can program around that much, except to automate the cancelling of the matchmaking process if there are no close matchups.

This might not be the answer lower ranked squads want to hear, but it is what it is.
lukeskywalker
Leader
Squad: onewiththeforce
Squad Level: 50

We are always looking for active players. We have a squad of 20+ members, and we war at least once a week. We have maxed out our Perks. We like helping new players, so all players are welcome!


rawrebel
Commodore
Posts: 245

Re: War!!!

Post#16 » Tue Dec 25, 2018 2:36 am

Someone suggested above,there is a great line community with many squads of different levels,they organize and launch war same time so they can match faster ,sometimes work sometimes I don't ,when one mismatch occur usually the strongher squad give one or two outposts to the weaker squad ,is always fun and help a lot in learning new ways of gaming.
The matching is not very good but players can help in balancing this issue.
Best advice is if you are in a active squad join some of these line groups and communicate /coordinate with other squads


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Midge
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1231

Re: War!!!

Post#17 » Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:19 am

Squad rankings can't be used in any logical way.

It is easy as shit for my squad to just dump down to the 15 that are warring to make our rank in the thousands, then just add them back after the match is made. AND, with the newly found drop in thousands of people who had max medals down to 20k ... it would make it even easier to manipulate.

The issue, which is not nearly discussed enough on this forum, is simply the lack of squads. That cannot really be fixed without an influx of players, which has not happened in a long long time.

An adjusted base score/medal count metric (which clearly uses levels as well as evidence suggests) is what is used and what should be used. The problem is, there are not enough squads for each pool on a regular basis. So, the algo has to expand just to match. That is not going to change because, frankly, there are not enough players.

You take your lumps as you grow and that is how it works. It is probably tougher now with the considerably lower amount of players and the merging of what used to be a strong top 200 squads or so into a very dominant top 25 squads or so. That limits the pool greatly and forces many more matches that don't look great.

All that said, the outposts and good organization make it relatively easy to compete on a regular basis. And you LEARN from the big boys (as you can look at our squad's record and see that we did) and then you become one.

If you just bitch about losing to them ... then you will just continue to be the bitch that is losing to them.
Leader of The Mob Syndicate

Home of TheMidnightMob, TheMorningMob, TheMiddayMob and TheMobWantsYou

Level X Rebel : Medal Maxed


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lukeskywalker
Major General
Posts: 370

Re: War!!!

Post#18 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:25 pm

We are just an hour away from closing out another war. It's a good example of how big the outposts are, and how important it is to know which units work in wars. Our level 8 attacked their level 10 yesterday and took 3 uplinks, with our squad holding all 3 outposts. Their level 10 attacked him back today, without any outposts and was only able to get 2 stars. We won that exchange, because of the outposts and our level 8's understanding of which units to use. As long as Tako and Tatooine are in play, it really levels the playing field between level 8's through 10's.
lukeskywalker
Leader
Squad: onewiththeforce
Squad Level: 50

We are always looking for active players. We have a squad of 20+ members, and we war at least once a week. We have maxed out our Perks. We like helping new players, so all players are welcome!


User avatar
Spirit
Major General
Posts: 368

Re: War!!!

Post#19 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:57 am

War is not a fun time for many squads while the matchmaking is so peculiar.
I move around a lot and visit many squads who rarely, some never, win. They are mismatched week after week and many give up or are totally demotivated, and miss the rare occasion that a fair match appears.
I disagree about rank, as it has no bearing on making anything fair. You could get a lev4 player versus a prestige player with the same rank. The only way to compare is hq level. If you look at virtually every comment about mismatches anywhere on this forum, HQ level is the only thing complained about in war and pvp,ever. I dont recall ever seeing a post on here complaining about a higher rank attacking them.
Either way, pvp and war is great fun and an exciting time, for the minority only. The rest are fed up but keep playing, in my view.
Player name Dog. Biting rebs across the galaxy.


DarkRebel
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1226

Re: War!!!

Post#20 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:42 am

Simply using squad ranking in war match making logic is not a good idea.
At best, you can use the medal count for the war participants, the same way as it was use for PVP and combined with Base Rating to form an Adjusted Base Rating, and then use the combined ABRs for the war participants in the war match making logic.
Ideally, the game should introduce a new war medal system that would award medals to each war participant on a squad war win and deduct them from each war participant on a lost (can go down to 0). Then this war medal can then be combined with participant base rating to form a new ABR for war match making. The player war medal count is carried along when player moves between squads.


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