The Last Jedi (Spoilers Included)

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Jaykoz3
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Re: The Last Jedi (Spoilers Included)

Post#251 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:40 pm

Forceisweaknyou wrote:
Rypcord wrote:
Forceisweaknyou wrote:The reason reviews (49-75%) don't match theater exit polls (90%), I surmise, is that angry fanboy is more motivated to speak his mind than casual fan that enjoyed the movie.


It also depends on who they poll. If you randomly select 20 people out of an audience, you might get 19 brunettes and 1 blond. Doesn't mean that 95% of the world has dark hair. It's random.

Likewise, you might be more 'euphoric' or 'happy' about the movie you just saw when leaving, rather than later, having time to think it over and rationalize/think about it and rehash it all in your head before coming up with a review.

The big thing is there are actual REVIEWs, like legitimate break downs of the movie, and those doing them are far more in the "its bad" camp than in the "its good" camp - which currently seems as far as critical reviewers go, seems to only be Kevin Smith....

Come on maann...both the theater polls are industry standards used by the major studios and poll thousands of people. Critics reviews 90%. Idbm 75%. Rotten hacked tomatoes 49%. I stand by the data. Now I respect individual opinions. If you love the movie you are right. If you hated the movie you are right. But the movie is one of the most popular movies of all time and the average moviegoer loved it. Those are simply the facts.

Not to mention that the "Audiences" have given Justice League a 77% rating......that's a F'N joke. Justice League is a way bigger trainwreck of a movie than any negative ned/nancy can say that TLJ is.

That right there ruins Rotten Tomatoes credibility, lol.


Plagueis
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Re: The Last Jedi (Spoilers Included)

Post#252 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:20 pm

Justice league was damn near unwatchable but it wasn’t as soul-crushingly bad as TLJ. At least Justice league didn’t ruin its main characters, try to make everything funny or stupid for kids and inject a turkey baster load of SJW & feminist political narrative....


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Forceisweaknyou
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Re: The Last Jedi (Spoilers Included)

Post#253 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:28 pm

Plagueis wrote:
Forceisweaknyou wrote:
Rypcord wrote:
It also depends on who they poll. If you randomly select 20 people out of an audience, you might get 19 brunettes and 1 blond. Doesn't mean that 95% of the world has dark hair. It's random.

Likewise, you might be more 'euphoric' or 'happy' about the movie you just saw when leaving, rather than later, having time to think it over and rationalize/think about it and rehash it all in your head before coming up with a review.

The big thing is there are actual REVIEWs, like legitimate break downs of the movie, and those doing them are far more in the "its bad" camp than in the "its good" camp - which currently seems as far as critical reviewers go, seems to only be Kevin Smith....

Come on maann...both the theater polls are industry standards used by the major studios and poll thousands of people. Critics reviews 90%. Idbm 75%. Rotten hacked tomatoes 49%. I stand by the data. Now I respect individual opinions. If you love the movie you are right. If you hated the movie you are right. But the movie is one of the most popular movies of all time and the average moviegoer loved it. Those are simply the facts.


Rotten tomatoes was not hacked. From Forbes:

With regard to that very low audience score, quite a few conspiracy theorists ignored the overwhelming evidence that many moviegoers disliked the film, and circulated accusations of organized vote campaigns designed to drive down the film’s scores, despite the absence of any credible evidence to support this notion.



In late December I spoke with a Rotten Tomatoes representative named Dana Benson who claimed that the company works assiduously to prevent such manipulation and goes to great lengths to verify their ratings’ accuracy and authenticity. “We have several teams of security, network, and social database experts who constantly monitor reviews and ratings to ensure that they are genuine,” Benson told me. “They haven’t seen anything unusual with The Last Jedi, except that there has been an uptick in the number of written user reviews submitted.”

We can speculate endlessly; we'll probably never know. But it would conveniently explain why it is 26% lower than comparable user review sites.
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Forceisweaknyou
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Re: The Last Jedi (Spoilers Included)

Post#254 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:29 pm

Jaykoz3 wrote:
Forceisweaknyou wrote:
Rypcord wrote:
It also depends on who they poll. If you randomly select 20 people out of an audience, you might get 19 brunettes and 1 blond. Doesn't mean that 95% of the world has dark hair. It's random.

Likewise, you might be more 'euphoric' or 'happy' about the movie you just saw when leaving, rather than later, having time to think it over and rationalize/think about it and rehash it all in your head before coming up with a review.

The big thing is there are actual REVIEWs, like legitimate break downs of the movie, and those doing them are far more in the "its bad" camp than in the "its good" camp - which currently seems as far as critical reviewers go, seems to only be Kevin Smith....

Come on maann...both the theater polls are industry standards used by the major studios and poll thousands of people. Critics reviews 90%. Idbm 75%. Rotten hacked tomatoes 49%. I stand by the data. Now I respect individual opinions. If you love the movie you are right. If you hated the movie you are right. But the movie is one of the most popular movies of all time and the average moviegoer loved it. Those are simply the facts.

Not to mention that the "Audiences" have given Justice League a 77% rating......that's a F'N joke. Justice League is a way bigger trainwreck of a movie than any negative ned/nancy can say that TLJ is.

That right there ruins Rotten Tomatoes credibility, lol.

Great point. Justice League had so much potential.
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Forceisweaknyou
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Re: The Last Jedi (Spoilers Included)

Post#255 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:32 pm

I'm looking forward to 9. Not so much with solo. Not sure how I will react to seeing a Ford replacement.
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Plagueis
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Re: The Last Jedi (Spoilers Included)

Post#256 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:43 pm

Forceisweaknyou wrote:
Plagueis wrote:
Forceisweaknyou wrote:Come on maann...both the theater polls are industry standards used by the major studios and poll thousands of people. Critics reviews 90%. Idbm 75%. Rotten hacked tomatoes 49%. I stand by the data. Now I respect individual opinions. If you love the movie you are right. If you hated the movie you are right. But the movie is one of the most popular movies of all time and the average moviegoer loved it. Those are simply the facts.


Rotten tomatoes was not hacked. From Forbes:

With regard to that very low audience score, quite a few conspiracy theorists ignored the overwhelming evidence that many moviegoers disliked the film, and circulated accusations of organized vote campaigns designed to drive down the film’s scores, despite the absence of any credible evidence to support this notion.



In late December I spoke with a Rotten Tomatoes representative named Dana Benson who claimed that the company works assiduously to prevent such manipulation and goes to great lengths to verify their ratings’ accuracy and authenticity. “We have several teams of security, network, and social database experts who constantly monitor reviews and ratings to ensure that they are genuine,” Benson told me. “They haven’t seen anything unusual with The Last Jedi, except that there has been an uptick in the number of written user reviews submitted.”

We can speculate endlessly; we'll probably never know. But it would conveniently explain why it is 26% lower than comparable user review sites.


There’s a discrepancy because many “professional” review sites and critics get PAID by the movie studios and companies such as Disney. Top critics often get early viewings and vip treatment, which they don’t want to lose by leaving bad reviews... Ones that conveniently come out before WE can see the same movie. It’s a marketing tactic and the critics are advertising to get US to see the movie and in return are receiving $$$ and other perks. It’s a hollywood “I grope you, you grope me” type of deal.

Do yourself a favor and read a glowing “Top critic” review. Pretty much most “Top critic” reviews are similar and find ways to defend this turd of a movie so they don’t piss off the studio while isolating themselves just enough from it to eventually be able to say how much TLJ sucked and that they were told to write only good reviews for it. You’ll find absolute nonsense statements like:

“Rian Johnson clearly remembers something that Lucas' most fervent followers sometimes forget: These are movies for the young, or at least the young at heart.”

From Wikipedia:

The Star Wars science fiction media franchise is acknowledged to have been inspired by many sources. These include southern and eastern Asian religions, Qigong, philosophy, classical mythology, Roman history, Zoroastrianism, parts of the Abrahamic religions, Confucianism, Shintō and Taoism, and countless cinematic precursors. Creator George Lucas stated "Most of the spiritual reality in the movie[s] is based on a synthesis of all religions. A synthesis through history; the way man has perceived the unknown and the great mystery and tried to deal with that or dealing with it".[1]

Find me ONE kid (man-children excluded) that’s going to pick up on any of these VERY adult influences. Kids’ movie my butt.

and speaking of backsides...like firmly kissing them...

“You don't have to be a Star Wars fan to love this addition to the canon (heck, it works even if you haven't seen any of the other movies).”

Really? A movie that answers absolutely ZERO questions about the main characters origins is going to “work” on its own “if you haven’t seen any of the other movies”? It’s so ludicrous that there’s absolutely no way this review was serious unless he was smoking something or being paid to write nonsensical fluff.


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Forceisweaknyou
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Re: The Last Jedi (Spoilers Included)

Post#257 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:11 am

Plagueis wrote:
Forceisweaknyou wrote:
Plagueis wrote:
Rotten tomatoes was not hacked. From Forbes:

With regard to that very low audience score, quite a few conspiracy theorists ignored the overwhelming evidence that many moviegoers disliked the film, and circulated accusations of organized vote campaigns designed to drive down the film’s scores, despite the absence of any credible evidence to support this notion.



In late December I spoke with a Rotten Tomatoes representative named Dana Benson who claimed that the company works assiduously to prevent such manipulation and goes to great lengths to verify their ratings’ accuracy and authenticity. “We have several teams of security, network, and social database experts who constantly monitor reviews and ratings to ensure that they are genuine,” Benson told me. “They haven’t seen anything unusual with The Last Jedi, except that there has been an uptick in the number of written user reviews submitted.”

We can speculate endlessly; we'll probably never know. But it would conveniently explain why it is 26% lower than comparable user review sites.


There’s a discrepancy because many “professional” review sites and critics get PAID by the movie studios and companies such as Disney. Top critics often get early viewings and vip treatment, which they don’t want to lose by leaving bad reviews... Ones that conveniently come out before WE can see the same movie. It’s a marketing tactic and the critics are advertising to get US to see the movie and in return are receiving $$$ and other perks. It’s a hollywood “I grope you, you grope me” type of deal.

Do yourself a favor and read a glowing “Top critic” review. Pretty much most “Top critic” reviews are similar and find ways to defend this turd of a movie so they don’t piss off the studio while isolating themselves just enough from it to eventually be able to say how much TLJ sucked and that they were told to write only good reviews for it. You’ll find absolute nonsense statements like:

“Rian Johnson clearly remembers something that Lucas' most fervent followers sometimes forget: These are movies for the young, or at least the young at heart.”

From Wikipedia:

The Star Wars science fiction media franchise is acknowledged to have been inspired by many sources. These include southern and eastern Asian religions, Qigong, philosophy, classical mythology, Roman history, Zoroastrianism, parts of the Abrahamic religions, Confucianism, Shintō and Taoism, and countless cinematic precursors. Creator George Lucas stated "Most of the spiritual reality in the movie[s] is based on a synthesis of all religions. A synthesis through history; the way man has perceived the unknown and the great mystery and tried to deal with that or dealing with it".[1]

Find me ONE kid (man-children excluded) that’s going to pick up on any of these VERY adult influences. Kids’ movie my butt.

and speaking of backsides...like firmly kissing them...

“You don't have to be a Star Wars fan to love this addition to the canon (heck, it works even if you haven't seen any of the other movies).”

Really? A movie that answers absolutely ZERO questions about the main characters origins is going to “work” on its own “if you haven’t seen any of the other movies”? It’s so ludicrous that there’s absolutely no way this review was serious unless he was smoking something or being paid to write nonsensical fluff.

A coherent discussion with you is impossible. You keep twisting the facts.
Rotten T
Critics 90%
User reviews 49%

Idbm
Critics 85%
User reviews 75% (280,000 people)

If you don't understand this discrepancy I can't help you.
And to your point, the movies have always been marketed to the broadest market possible, including, but not exclusively, to children. It's the most successful toy line in history! Which GL famously retained the rights to. Ewoks, porgs, cool vehicles that go pew pew. Kids love that stuff.
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Plagueis
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Re: The Last Jedi (Spoilers Included)

Post#258 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:07 pm

Idbm shows a score of 7.5/10 from 281k reviews, yet when you read the 4,400 actual viewer reviews, they pretty much all hated the movie. Is that 281k people being asked as they’re leaving the theater what they thought of the movie after having their childhood ripped away, giving an awkward smile and saying, “...it was good?...” while the the clipboard holder goes, “Ok, 7.5 out of 10”. We’ll see how much people really liked the movie when episode 9 comes out and ticket sales are awful.

ANH was marketed to a broad audience as Lucas had no idea that it was going to be a hit. It just so happens that kids like explosions, robots and aliens so after the first movie, the marketing became more obivious and the world saw a crazy influx of toys. Keep in mind there are also star wars themed adult products too like Nissan Altimas which I don’t think little billy can afford yet. It was never just a kids movie and it continues to be marketed to everyone just as aggressively.


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Forceisweaknyou
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Re: The Last Jedi (Spoilers Included)

Post#259 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:50 pm

Now you're twisting facts again. Online user reviews are not theater exit polls. 280000 people voted on idbm and the average is 7.5/10. Rotten T has 30000 votes for 49%. I just can't have a discussion with you. You ignore the facts twist the facts. I don't mind disagreeing with someone. But it has to be logical. Make a statement. Support it with facts. State your opinion. But when you present your opinion as fact when it is clearly erroneous then I just can't.
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Plagueis
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Re: The Last Jedi (Spoilers Included)

Post#260 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:16 pm

Forceisweaknyou wrote:Now you're twisting facts again. Online user reviews are not theater exit polls. 280000 people voted on idbm and the average is 7.5/10. Rotten T has 30000 votes for 49%. I just can't have a discussion with you. You ignore the facts twist the facts. I don't mind disagreeing with someone. But it has to be logical. Make a statement. Support it with facts. State your opinion. But when you present your opinion as fact when it is clearly erroneous then I just can't.


So if idbm’s numbers are way different that rotten tomatoes, maybe their online figures got hacked and are being boosted? lol. That never happens....says online retailers that frequently manipulate their own reviews. But we don’t know and can’t prove it so let’s let the “hacking” theory die.

And i’m not presenting, ignoring or twisting any facts. This is my opinion. Neither one of us can verify the data on these sites. All we can do is form an opinion based on as many sources as possible. In my case, I cite myself for seeing the movie + RT’s 49% + the majority of posted movie reviews including on idbm + the youtube videos and podcasts absolutely mauling TLJ and the lack of videos and podcasts supporting TLJ as evidence to form my best opinion. You can believe what you want but you have to see that from my perspective, I and many other people hated the movie and we have reasons for it. Agree with that or not, they exist. There are other comments in this thread that support that assessment. That doesn’t mean either one of us is wrong though. If you liked TLJ, then that’s your personal taste and I obviously don’t understand it, but you’re entitled to it. Maybe you liked Avatar: The Last Airbender. Whatever.

All I care about is Disney getting its head out of it’s backside and making GOOD star wars movies because IMO TLJ was terrible not only as a star wars movie, but as a movie in general. Nothing anyone says to me is going to make me feel like TLJ was even OK.


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