Game Update 2/25/2015 - AT AT fix!

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Game Update 2/25/2015 - AT AT fix!

Post#1 » Wed Feb 25, 2015 6:52 pm

Disney roll out a new patch today mainly to address the "blind" AT-AT issue and empty chat room bug.

AT-AT will now recognize the edge of a shield rather than try to get in range of the generator building. The fix allows the AT-AT to shoot from a relatively safe distance again. However, both the Elite and regular AT-AT's range is now intentionally nerfed by 1, and thus puts it on par with rocket turret's range. We will see how this affects game play. So far, the response seem to be well received by most players. The same fix affects many other giant units such as Juggernaut and MHC. The Juggernaut might be better than the AT-AT now with similar range and superior speed.

Another pretty significant update is the shield size at HQ7 and HQ8. I intentionally kept my shield at HQ6 because I did not want the additional range. (I found much more success with shield's edge just inside the wall.) This change could significantly improve defense at higher levels.


Notes from the developers:

Balance Change:
  • Limit max shield size to 6.
      Note: This will bring the shield size down for level 7 & 8 players.
  • Increase shield health for level 7 & 8 shields.


Balance Change Explanation:
Due to the difficulty of defending bases, the design team has chosen to shrink the shields at levels 7 & 8. While counter-intuitive to normal convention, the smaller shield allows the shield to be better defended behind walls and buildings, meaning that turret or shield targeting units are more easily defeated.

Specifically, at these levels, players were having far less success defending due to shields being able to be taken out from multiple sides, often without being able to be retaliated against by turrets (due to range and turret spread needed to protect all sides of a shield).

Also, due to the increased size of the shield, it often left more items vulnerable (when shields were destroyed) as single shields were being used to protect a large number key buildings.

AT-AT Changes:
  • AT-AT & Elite AT-AT target the shield edge (not the shield generator).
  • The AT-ATs now shoot over any blocking buildings in its path to hit the shield edge (if in range).
  • AT-AT & Elite AT-AT units can now shoot over walls and buildings to hit their target.
    • AT-AT range lowered from 10 to 9.
  • AT-AT Elite range lowered from 11 to 10.
  • AT-AT & Elite AT-AT now crush walls (and ignore walls when attacking).
  • Improved A* pathing for AT-ATs and Elite AT-ATs.
    • These units will try to head in a straight line to reach their target

AT-AT Change Explanation:
After announcement to the playerbase, there were concerns from multiple players (and some of our own QA) on the predictability and functionality of AT-ATs, and why they may shoot at specific ranges in specific scenarios. We realized after more testing that, while this did bring us back to pre-RC8 functionality of the AT-AT, it did not fix all issues with predictability of when and from how far the AT-AT would attack. Since predictability is necessary for the AT-AT, and we wanted to ensure that they were as predictable as possible, we went with turning on the "Shield Edge Targeting" for the unit.

We also noted that while we turned on shield edge targeting on for the AT-AT, it resulted in all AT-ATs being able to out range any retaliating turrets. This is what we had in beta of the game, and resulted in issues with the ability to successfully defend against AT-ATs.

For more clarity, Pre-RC8 functionality meant that the AT-AT would target buildings in its path, but post RC8 changes meant that these units would not be able to 100% follow that targeting (meaning that they would only hit a unit directly in it's perfect path, and occasionally hit the shield edge). The changes in RC8 meant that AT-ATs would shield kiss, instead of trying to clear their path out. When shield edge targeting was turned on, these units no longer needed to move in that 1 additional tile to hit the blocking building, and thus were untouchable in some cases.

As such, the design team adjusted the range of the units by 1. When combined with the shield edge targeting, this means that these units will effectively hit the edge of the shield consistently and predictably. This also means that we maintain that AT-ATs can still be retaliated against by the turrets inside the shield (on the edge), as the concerns listed above meant that the AT-AT would not have entered any turret range and would effectively get a free shield kill with no damage if shield targeting was implemented with no range change.

AT-ATs also no longer need to shoot walls (or buildings blocking their path in way of a target), so these units will no longer spend large amounts of time shooting any walls. AT-ATs being wall hungry monsters was often a problem for players, and now this means that AT-ATs can stay focused on doing their job, which is wrecking shields.

AT-ATs being dumb and unpredictable was often a common concern, but we feel that with these changes, these units now are consistent and accurate in how they attack and move in the game. The units will no longer walk closer than expected when attacking shields, and will head in straight lines

Additional 2.5.1. Fixes:

Large unit placement on the edge of the map has been fixed.
Multiple pathing improvements for large units, including the AT-AT, AT-AT Elite, Juggernaut, and MHC.
Fixed multiple unit reverts, specifically relating to aoe splash on tanks and a few other issues.
Multiple Android-specific crashes.
Fixes to the event store, to address crashes when accessing via popup.


Known Visual Issue:
There is a visual issue with the AT-AT when a shield overlaps the protected deployment zone (edge of map). In this visual issue, the AT-AT will look to strike the shield generator instead of the shield edge. This is visual only, as you will see the shield health go down instead of the generator health. We will be fixing this in a future release.


Veers
Lieutenant
Posts: 11

Re: Game Update 2/25/2015 - AT AT fix!

Post#2 » Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:18 am

The fix has resolved many of the issues we've (imperials) been experiencing. That’s good! But, improving the Juggernaut range won’t make the game uneven again? I've been reading here at the forum that the balance between rebels and imperials is based on range vs. powerful healing droids. Is that so? Because if you fix the juggernaut range you'll have to fix the imperial waker repair droids too, is it correct?


NogginToboggan
Storm Trooper
Posts: 5

Re: Game Update 2/25/2015 - AT AT fix!

Post#3 » Sat Feb 28, 2015 8:33 am

as an Imperial player, while this update does seem to fix the pathing issues, I dislike it. AT-AT targeting shield edges has taken it from ok, to broken bad, to op. I'm 3staring rebels I would be barely 1staring in the last update. despite the AT-AT being broken before, I was still doing ok (because I wasnt using the AT-AT). when the previous patch came out and broke the AT-AT I was pissed. but a few days after I was 100% alright with it. I started using the break to force me out of the mold I had made for myself, keeping me from being creative with my army loadouts.

While I'm on my soapbox, gonna vent about the medic droids. its not the heavies that are the issue, its the medics and I will highlight my reasons.

1: with all healing based units around, spike damage or aoe damage, not sustain damage, is the most important. a burst turret (the spike damage vs troops) and rocket turret (the spike damage vs vehicles) will do approximately the same % damage vs the respective comparable units. this is good. this is balanced.

2: with healing units being so important since the spike damage is so high, damage to the healing units is important. since the medics are being shielded by the attacking unit, aoe is your best bet to take them out. issue being, 1 direct hit mortar on a repair droid is a dead droid. but it takes something like 4 direct hits on medics to do the same. this means you need several repair droids since they wont be able to stick around while medics will stay the entire game since they are only taking partial damage due to distance from impact point. I think I understand why. since infantry have lower hitpoints and more turrets damage them acceptably well, the medics need to be able to tank something or everything will die very fast. however I feel the health is too high for the medics

3: the healing ratio is waaaaaay off. for a non bruiser vehicle, it takes 4 repair droids to tank a single rocket turret and 3 for a bruiser. however it takes 1 medic droid to tank ANY turret, and sometimes 2, depending on if they fire staggered any. this means that 4 medics will stay alive all the way to the end while my 6 repair droids are almost always dead.

4: then we come to quantity. personally i use 12 stormtroopers to work the perimeter and take out the outside buildings. rebels do also use the basic troop for the same (at least vs me). issue is that basic troops that catch mortar edges dont die and end up bat full health again after the medic heals them. 4 medics is 20 points while my 6 repair droids are 24. thats about even and somewhat acceptable (even if I think the health isnt. however, to deal with things like droidekas and squad center troops, rebels stick with their heavies or maybe snipers which stay healed. both of which I have seen as primary attack units. since they shoot nearest, they will target the defending troops. but the primary attack unit for imperials is NOT a "nearest" targeter. so you need to take dedicated anti-defending-unit units like snipers (as a side, considering how much damage anit vehicle skiffs do, imperials reaaaaly need an anti vehicle targeting unit to target them because snipers will ignore them if they arent the closest) this limits the number of available units to be the primary attacker. with my current layout, I have 3 hovertanks and 1 mobile platform for a total of 42 points in 4 units. 40 points would get you 8 heavies. considering how hard you have to work to kill 1 with single target turrets, you get 1, and the total damage output is not dramatically reduced as it is with 4. I bring 2 snipers. thats almost 3 more heavies. now its even less a factor to lose one. and imperials have to take units that will attack other buildings because my 4 anti-turret vehicles usually barely finish killing all the turrets (if they dont die first) so they only attack the buildings in the way, while snipers and heavies sweep the area as they go and are largely unaffected by the turrets and dont need to focus on them.

thats the end of my rant. I have played a little bit of rebels myself and I do understand how they play. I just feel there needs to be some balancing done on the healers


Langedemort
Storm Trooper
Posts: 6

Re: Game Update 2/25/2015 - AT AT fix!

Post#4 » Sat Feb 28, 2015 9:42 am

I'm going to get on my soapbox to reply to a previous statement just made. I notice that the Empire players complain about the Med Droids used by the Rebels but if that's the case lets put in a formal complaint about the droids used to heal (support units) the Empire machines i.e. the AT-AT walkers. I have had many of Empire players attack me and use 3 Walkers. The Elite and two standard with 6 med droids of their own therefore rendering my defenses useless. Now I can see a balance is needed but if your going to nerf something on the Rebel side then you need to do the same to the Empire. For example if you want to remove power from the med droids and heavy then why don't we take away the med droids of the Empire and the power of the AT-AT's? As a matter of fact lets just remove all 4 units and get it over with. If you change the droids for the Rebels you give the Empire the unfair advantage over us. Now I saw in a previous update that the Turrets have been reconditioned to attack support units instead. Not the Mortars which do deal decent damage to all the ground troops. The Rebels are known for their Ground troops not the machines like the Empire is. We don't start off with Elite AT-AT's. Regardless of what they start off with they do start with Vehicles and we start with the Hero's i.e. Han, Leia, Chewbacca, R2D2. I have been on a lot of forums and all I have seen is the Empire complaining about every little thing out there right down to our sniper units. How powerful they are versus how powerful the vehicles of the Empire are these are the things you need to look at. Taking away from the Rebels so that the Empire will quit complaining and threatening to quit playing isn't right and you need to re-evaluate what you're listening to.


NogginToboggan
Storm Trooper
Posts: 5

Re: Game Update 2/25/2015 - AT AT fix!

Post#5 » Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:00 am

to be fair I did say I agreed that the at-at was now too good. I've played both sides and I feel I have a reasonable understanding of both side's plight. a simple squad command full of skiffs and those ATATs are toast. 2 skiffs will kill an ATAT in 2 volleys and you can hold 4 in a level 7 squad command. also to be fair, imperials arent the only perpetrators of this technique. while juggernaut doesnt have a range of 10 like atats, they have a similar health amount and damage while 3 times the speed and 2/3 the point cost. I've seen a level 7 player with 4 juggernauts and r2d2 and the rest basic rebel soldiers. imperials cant take that kind of vehicle attack seeing as r2d2 has alot of health and heals as much as 4 repair droids. I dont know how to fix the atat to be balanced without making it a copy of the juggernaut but I can make suggestions on how to fix what I do know is a little unbalanced. in this case, a lowering of health on medics would make them die faster and force more points to be spent on more medics or something to distract the mortars away from the heavies.

On a side, I also find it funny that imperials, who have limitless resources, are forced to finesse their attacks, while revels, who are supposed to need to resort to hit and fade attacks, are able to brute force many bases.

again, I'm not saying that the game is unplayable. both sides have issues I feel need addressed. you wanted to counter my argument against the medic droids and thats fine. if you have suggestions as to how to fix atat imbalance, I'm willing to discuss it in a mature manner


NogginToboggan
Storm Trooper
Posts: 5

Re: Game Update 2/25/2015 - AT AT fix!

Post#6 » Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:31 pm

alternately, keeping the same health of the medics but making them heal about 2/3 of what they currently do would be acceptable. anything to keep a single medic droid from allowing a troop to tank any 1 turret alone


Langedemort
Storm Trooper
Posts: 6

Re: Game Update 2/25/2015 - AT AT fix!

Post#7 » Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:33 pm

I would rather talk to a dev who actually has some sort of say in this game. I find that arguing amongst ourselves is pointless and this is something that needs to be addressed. and to counter the skiff argument I'm sorry but that's not entirely true. Skiffs are low in health and may do damage but not enough to take down a AT-AT when it has 6 droids healing it. As far as R2 I tried that attack of 4 jugs and R2 not happening. The Jugs just roll right into the base like drunk teenagers rolling into their favorite hangout. The game is not meant to have the rebels just dink and dunk to get a win it is meant to have a victory or a loss. What the Imps want is total annihilation of the rebs all the time. this is something that the Devs need to talk to the players about not have you and I argue who's side is more vulnerable. Any conversation that is not talked about in a mature manner isn't worth having. If you know a way to get the Devs to talk to you and I then lets do this because all I see when I log on to these forums is Imps complaining that its not fair.


NogginToboggan
Storm Trooper
Posts: 5

Re: Game Update 2/25/2015 - AT AT fix!

Post#8 » Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:40 pm

I don't want total annihilation every time, thats no fun. the very first thing I said was that the AT-AT is too good right no and its making it too easy. what I would like is a chance when defending against rebels because when I have no troops in the squad center, its almost always a 2 or 3 star 75+% destroyed. the issue being that 5 points can make a unit tank any 1 turret for a long time while it takes 16 to barely tank for the other side


Renaldd
Cadet Trooper
Posts: 0

Re: Game Update 2/25/2015 - AT AT fix!

Post#9 » Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:03 am

AT AT is now way too strong. They are not even stopped by walls they just walk on them! What the point of having defensive walls. They are almost not damaged by mortars. They have a fire range with no equivalent in rebel squad.
Could somebody tell what is as strong as AT AT on rebel side. juggernaut do not have the power range, they cannot walk on walls and run into empire base as drunken teenager and get destroyed in no time.
The rt tt get stuck all the time and are useless.
Please I want a balance game between rebels and empire.

Really walking on walls! This is a huge advantage.
Tx for advice and change by the developers.


NogginToboggan
Storm Trooper
Posts: 5

Re: Game Update 2/25/2015 - AT AT fix!

Post#10 » Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:21 am

the hailfire also has a range of 10 but is weak vs shields. snipers also 10. I've seen people use snipers and medics instead of heavies and medics since the sniper range will keep the total number of turrets shooting them down since they don't need to get as close. most opponents i face simply just use heavies since heavies have a multiplier vs shields and they can be used en mass. but i agree... shield edge targeting of the atat has made it too good


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