Need some tips to base defense

Tips and Strategies for Defending Rivals.
Plagueis
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1384

Re: Need some tips to base defense

Post#11 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:31 pm

DarkRebel wrote:
Plagueis wrote:
DarkRebel wrote:Thought you said you had problem with jets attack and has been demanding a jets skin nerf ? Apparently not so here.
That defense record is amazing, especially for L9 base against L10 attacks.


That’s because most of the attacks my level 9 are seeing are the traditional heavies + meds and snipe attacks. Hence why I offered advice to a player who is getting attacked by the same. I do get attacked occasionally by a bunch of jets but that tends to be maybe 1 out of every 5 defenses. They obviously aren’t high level jet skins or as experienced as I’m still seeing other builds more often. My level 10 on the other hand gets attacked by nothing but jets. Nice try calling me out though.

And yes, jets still need a nerf. I have less of a problem stopping them on defense most of the time as players who use them become overconfident and make mistakes and more of a problem with one faction having a stronger version of an identical unit for absolutely no reason. Don’t tell me a handful of easily lured low level GR snipes are a threat as most rebels can hit the 40%+ mark in base destruction before the second wave and four plinking snipes, even with rodian skins aren’t going to stop a mass of 22 buffed jets before earning a star. But WAAAAAA rebels need 3 stars EVERY attack!!! Lol. Maybe that’s a little excessive or maybe not. Especially when rebels are able to use mindless tactics to achieve victory that the other faction can’t duplicate because their fliers are simply weaker. No wonder you guys get so touchy about losing your advantage. But go ahead and defend the necessity for rebels to have the strongest attack in the game simply by spamming 22 of a single unit and using them almost exclusively in their SCs. Oh, but they’re not OP in the least bit. Give me a break.

I’m actually for nerfing jets AND jumps. They’re way too powerful for either faction.

Only nerfing jets/jumps without reducing defense capbility (like GR) IS A REALLY BAD IDEA.
Instead, introducing new skin for mechs, like sand/forest skin for MHCs and HFDs, new skin for jugg/ATAT and ATST/T2B, etc..
People use jumps/jets because that is the only effective option. Give other effective options and I will guarantee you will use/see new load combo. I am getting bored of usng jumps and TXs. Would like to dust off the MHCs and ATATs, and ATSTs.
Give Luke a new skin, and perhaps we will see less Kessen.
I prefer giving players more options, than taking them (jumps/jets) away.
(If offense gets too strong, then perhaps give sonics a new skin that reduce time between shots. Woohoo)
Balance can be achieved by adding more options and not just by substracting options.


I agree that jets/jumps are the only viable option when it comes to earning 3-star wins. Other builds are still viable but are incredibly sketchy now and typically yield 1-2 star wins at best. Guard reserve (even rebel) and armory buffs are simply too nasty for anything except for buffed fliers. The problem with buffing other units in addition to jets/jumps is that there is no reason for players to change a strategy that already works unless the additional buffed unit options makes the attack even more effective, which is A REALLY BAD IDEA too because we don’t need people winning any more than 99% of the time like they do right now and especially not the “rollfest” adding more buffed units could become. Don’t get me wrong, I like the idea of less people using kessen but the only way they would do it was if the replacement hero worked better than kessen....damn.

What’s really going on is that armory buffs as a whole are way too powerful. Most people can agree on it. So the most logical thing to do would be to reduce the effectiveness of armory equipment and as a side effect more vehicles, infantry, heroes and mercs that even new players that have been left out of the frag chasing loop already have would suddenly become useable again.


Shelendil
Admiral
Posts: 739

Re: Need some tips to base defense

Post#12 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:00 am

Plagueis wrote:
Shelendil wrote:
Plagueis wrote:and more of a problem with one faction having a stronger version of an identical unit for absolutely no reason


You mean like imperial bikes, imperial snipers, and imperial rapid fire turrets, right? Stop cherry picking.


And not one of the things you listed are that much better than their rebel equivalents as jets are to jumps.

According to SWC wiki, RFTs do identical damage @ lvl 10 regardless of faction and have no difference in modifiers. Is their some hidden data that makes them vastly better for imps because I see plenty of rebs who use them too.

Rebel bikes have lower UC which means more of them can fill an SC (8) vs. the whopping 6 bikes imps can fit and 4 UC left for a probe droid.... But you guys have OP jets to do that job anyways. There was a time when every rebel SC was full of nothing but bikes...

Rebel sharpshooter damage @ lvl 10 = 2640
Imp sniper damage @ lvl 10 = 2310

1 UC difference for 330 more damage (around 1500 more for lvl 10 sharps with maxed sullustan skin than lvl 10 snipes with maxed rodian skin). But we do get a better damage modifier so we could have better snipes depending on the target. It’s late I don’t want to do that much math. Too bad our guard reserve snipes are typically lvl 3-4 which makes them pathetically weak without rodian skin (which makes them work like lvl 8 snipes) and SC snipes are vulnerable to air unlike jets. What would you rather go against, an SC full of stuff that has to be kessen sniped or lured and even then is a pain to kill off without investing at least half of your attack to it, or one that can be kessen sniped, lured and killed with 3 jets or killed with a single fang if plan A and plan B fail?


Imperial rapids do twice the damage that rebels' do. That's an advantage that probably should have disappeared when medics were given. For the snipers, I'm referring to the 300% vs 200% modifier. Imperial bikes do 2.4 times the dps of their rebel counterpart for one more UC. Imperials get huge advantages on defense versus infantry and you're complaining about a paltry 42% difference for jets? If you can datamine the difference in jets versus jumps, then you also should have looked into the other faction differences as well. Instead you're latching onto one fact and ignoring the big picture. You sound like you want to take away the one advantage rebels have left and just leave them with nothing. You sound absolutely off your rocker.
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DarkRebel
Admiral
Posts: 805

Re: Need some tips to base defense

Post#13 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:18 am

Plagueis wrote:
DarkRebel wrote:
Plagueis wrote:
That’s because most of the attacks my level 9 are seeing are the traditional heavies + meds and snipe attacks. Hence why I offered advice to a player who is getting attacked by the same. I do get attacked occasionally by a bunch of jets but that tends to be maybe 1 out of every 5 defenses. They obviously aren’t high level jet skins or as experienced as I’m still seeing other builds more often. My level 10 on the other hand gets attacked by nothing but jets. Nice try calling me out though.

And yes, jets still need a nerf. I have less of a problem stopping them on defense most of the time as players who use them become overconfident and make mistakes and more of a problem with one faction having a stronger version of an identical unit for absolutely no reason. Don’t tell me a handful of easily lured low level GR snipes are a threat as most rebels can hit the 40%+ mark in base destruction before the second wave and four plinking snipes, even with rodian skins aren’t going to stop a mass of 22 buffed jets before earning a star. But WAAAAAA rebels need 3 stars EVERY attack!!! Lol. Maybe that’s a little excessive or maybe not. Especially when rebels are able to use mindless tactics to achieve victory that the other faction can’t duplicate because their fliers are simply weaker. No wonder you guys get so touchy about losing your advantage. But go ahead and defend the necessity for rebels to have the strongest attack in the game simply by spamming 22 of a single unit and using them almost exclusively in their SCs. Oh, but they’re not OP in the least bit. Give me a break.

I’m actually for nerfing jets AND jumps. They’re way too powerful for either faction.

Only nerfing jets/jumps without reducing defense capbility (like GR) IS A REALLY BAD IDEA.
Instead, introducing new skin for mechs, like sand/forest skin for MHCs and HFDs, new skin for jugg/ATAT and ATST/T2B, etc..
People use jumps/jets because that is the only effective option. Give other effective options and I will guarantee you will use/see new load combo. I am getting bored of usng jumps and TXs. Would like to dust off the MHCs and ATATs, and ATSTs.
Give Luke a new skin, and perhaps we will see less Kessen.
I prefer giving players more options, than taking them (jumps/jets) away.
(If offense gets too strong, then perhaps give sonics a new skin that reduce time between shots. Woohoo)
Balance can be achieved by adding more options and not just by substracting options.


I agree that jets/jumps are the only viable option when it comes to earning 3-star wins. Other builds are still viable but are incredibly sketchy now and typically yield 1-2 star wins at best. Guard reserve (even rebel) and armory buffs are simply too nasty for anything except for buffed fliers. The problem with buffing other units in addition to jets/jumps is that there is no reason for players to change a strategy that already works unless the additional buffed unit options makes the attack even more effective, which is A REALLY BAD IDEA too because we don’t need people winning any more than 99% of the time like they do right now and especially not the “rollfest” adding more buffed units could become. Don’t get me wrong, I like the idea of less people using kessen but the only way they would do it was if the replacement hero worked better than kessen....damn.

What’s really going on is that armory buffs as a whole are way too powerful. Most people can agree on it. So the most logical thing to do would be to reduce the effectiveness of armory equipment and as a side effect more vehicles, infantry, heroes and mercs that even new players that have been left out of the frag chasing loop already have would suddenly become useable again.

Don’t know what stats you got to conclude that people are winning more than 99% of the time. At the same time, you said your own base has been winning more than 70%, including wins against L10 players. Guys in my IMP squad (and myself) are accumulating defense wins everyday. The high win rate for some players is likely because of dev bases. If players have to face real bases, or not attacking down or sandbagging, then there is no “winning more than 99% of the time”. And don’t think you are the only player that wins defense. Geez.
I like armory effect to be reduced, so players don’t feel that they have to chase frags to be competitive, not because armory, as a whole, would increase offense winning percentage. Armory widens the gap between active players and casual players, so casual players eventually quit, and game would suffer as a result.


User avatar
Pirate
Major General
Posts: 489

Re: Need some tips to base defense

Post#14 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:22 am

BCSWC wrote:I'm level 9 currently and not sure which combo of defense turrets to use and positioning. I'm finding the medic-heavies and medic-snipers combo difficult to counter and jump troopers because of the equipment. Rapid fires don't work because they only take out one or two medics before being annihilated whereas sonic can't take out those heavies when they are spread out. Mortars not sure as they can be pretty inconsistent with the effectiveness and as for burst easily overwhelmed by large numbers due to the range. Need some tips please help. Thanks!


Do you have any guard reserve unlocked? GR snipers, preferably with rodian skin, are your friend. Bury the barracks in your base behind turrets and they will make quick work of heavies and draw rebel sharps to within turret range. If PvP (or HD) defense is your priority, minimize your turret variety so that you can get the most out of armory equipment. Rapids with damage buff are very versatile and should be the majority of your turrets if you're seeing mostly heavy-med or sharp-med attacks. Swap out your mortars, no need for those. Sonics are only valuable at lvl9 and up, lvl8 sonic is basically worthless. Ideal lvl5 armory equipment would be: GR Snipe, Rodian, GR Storms, Rapid heat sink, Rapid bracing. Combo of snipers + bikes or all snipes in the SC.
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BCSWC
Commander
Posts: 30

Re: Need some tips to base defense

Post#15 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:51 am

Attached here would be the equipments. Unfortunately didn't manage to unlock sniper gr and rodian. My current setup is 4 rockets, 6 sonics and 8 rapid fires...wondering if I should swap out the rockets for rapid fires. Since my original plan was for the rockets to take out the jugganauts before they can take down the shields and bring the air strikes in, but dsnt seem as viable now. Btw thanks for the tips guys :)
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BCSWC
Commander
Posts: 30

Re: Need some tips to base defense

Post#16 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 6:59 am

Plagueis wrote:Check out Hego Damask from SANDtroopers. It’s my lvl 9 alt and I’m averaging a 70% defensive win rate with that setup including against jet attacks. Lvl 10’s tend to get through at least half of the time but that’s expected.

Armory:

Rapid fire heat sink & reinforcements
Guard reserve snipes
Guard reserve storms
Guard reserve mhcs

SC:

Snipes and one imperial astromech


Thanks. Absolutely fantastic base layout. Looks really effective and neat at the same time. Are traps within or outside the walls?


Plagueis
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1384

Re: Need some tips to base defense

Post#17 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:32 am

The traps are mostly outside of the walls. I put a few in the corners to prevent guard reserve luring


Plagueis
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1384

Re: Need some tips to base defense

Post#18 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:41 am

BCSWC wrote:Attached here would be the equipments. Unfortunately didn't manage to unlock sniper gr and rodian. My current setup is 4 rockets, 6 sonics and 8 rapid fires...wondering if I should swap out the rockets for rapid fires. Since my original plan was for the rockets to take out the jugganauts before they can take down the shields and bring the air strikes in, but dsnt seem as viable now. Btw thanks for the tips guys :)


looking at what you have to work with, I would honestly swap out those rockets for more rapids until you hit HQ 10. IMO you’re also better off running snipes or even bikes in your SC vs. buffed jumps, assuming why you have that equipment activated. You want a defensive SC unit that has a damage modifier vs. infantry such as snipes or bikes. They’re vulnerable to air strike but many rebels will use up their fangs on guard reserve before they trip the SC. Rebels get away with running buffed SC jets because they’re disgustingly OP unlike our jumps. This will allow you to run guard reserve dewbacks which surprisingly, actually help your turrets work better because they slow attackers enough to allow the turrets to get more shots in than usual before being destroyed. As funny as it sounds, reserve dewbacks are close to as good as reserve snipes for this reason.


Plagueis
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1384

Re: Need some tips to base defense

Post#19 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:56 am

Shelendil wrote:
Plagueis wrote:
Shelendil wrote:
You mean like imperial bikes, imperial snipers, and imperial rapid fire turrets, right? Stop cherry picking.


And not one of the things you listed are that much better than their rebel equivalents as jets are to jumps.

According to SWC wiki, RFTs do identical damage @ lvl 10 regardless of faction and have no difference in modifiers. Is their some hidden data that makes them vastly better for imps because I see plenty of rebs who use them too.

Rebel bikes have lower UC which means more of them can fill an SC (8) vs. the whopping 6 bikes imps can fit and 4 UC left for a probe droid.... But you guys have OP jets to do that job anyways. There was a time when every rebel SC was full of nothing but bikes...

Rebel sharpshooter damage @ lvl 10 = 2640
Imp sniper damage @ lvl 10 = 2310

1 UC difference for 330 more damage (around 1500 more for lvl 10 sharps with maxed sullustan skin than lvl 10 snipes with maxed rodian skin). But we do get a better damage modifier so we could have better snipes depending on the target. It’s late I don’t want to do that much math. Too bad our guard reserve snipes are typically lvl 3-4 which makes them pathetically weak without rodian skin (which makes them work like lvl 8 snipes) and SC snipes are vulnerable to air unlike jets. What would you rather go against, an SC full of stuff that has to be kessen sniped or lured and even then is a pain to kill off without investing at least half of your attack to it, or one that can be kessen sniped, lured and killed with 3 jets or killed with a single fang if plan A and plan B fail?


Imperial rapids do twice the damage that rebels' do. That's an advantage that probably should have disappeared when medics were given. For the snipers, I'm referring to the 300% vs 200% modifier. Imperial bikes do 2.4 times the dps of their rebel counterpart for one more UC. Imperials get huge advantages on defense versus infantry and you're complaining about a paltry 42% difference for jets? If you can datamine the difference in jets versus jumps, then you also should have looked into the other faction differences as well. Instead you're latching onto one fact and ignoring the big picture. You sound like you want to take away the one advantage rebels have left and just leave them with nothing. You sound absolutely off your rocker.


Unless the wiki stats are way off on sharps like they seem to be on RFTs too, they have a higher base damage than snipes but a lower modifier. Jets get a better health buff than jumps which would offset that imp snipe modifier to some degree. When I attack a rebel base with sullustans, they easily 1 shot my jumps just as my SC rodians 1-shot jets so it’s hard to say there is any real disparity as both sides are losing their fliers at the same rate. So you know, jumps are the only viable option for imps too, yet they have less damage and health than jets. So far the only argument rebels have to counter this is that imps have guard reserve snipes while also admitting that guard reserve is really easy to counter now. You guys were winning before GR snipes were nerfed. After the nerf you’re winning even more, yet you still NEED the extra jet buff??


Plagueis
Grand Admiral
Posts: 1384

Re: Need some tips to base defense

Post#20 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:13 am

DarkRebel wrote:
Plagueis wrote:
DarkRebel wrote:Only nerfing jets/jumps without reducing defense capbility (like GR) IS A REALLY BAD IDEA.
Instead, introducing new skin for mechs, like sand/forest skin for MHCs and HFDs, new skin for jugg/ATAT and ATST/T2B, etc..
People use jumps/jets because that is the only effective option. Give other effective options and I will guarantee you will use/see new load combo. I am getting bored of usng jumps and TXs. Would like to dust off the MHCs and ATATs, and ATSTs.
Give Luke a new skin, and perhaps we will see less Kessen.
I prefer giving players more options, than taking them (jumps/jets) away.
(If offense gets too strong, then perhaps give sonics a new skin that reduce time between shots. Woohoo)
Balance can be achieved by adding more options and not just by substracting options.


I agree that jets/jumps are the only viable option when it comes to earning 3-star wins. Other builds are still viable but are incredibly sketchy now and typically yield 1-2 star wins at best. Guard reserve (even rebel) and armory buffs are simply too nasty for anything except for buffed fliers. The problem with buffing other units in addition to jets/jumps is that there is no reason for players to change a strategy that already works unless the additional buffed unit options makes the attack even more effective, which is A REALLY BAD IDEA too because we don’t need people winning any more than 99% of the time like they do right now and especially not the “rollfest” adding more buffed units could become. Don’t get me wrong, I like the idea of less people using kessen but the only way they would do it was if the replacement hero worked better than kessen....damn.

What’s really going on is that armory buffs as a whole are way too powerful. Most people can agree on it. So the most logical thing to do would be to reduce the effectiveness of armory equipment and as a side effect more vehicles, infantry, heroes and mercs that even new players that have been left out of the frag chasing loop already have would suddenly become useable again.

Don’t know what stats you got to conclude that people are winning more than 99% of the time. At the same time, you said your own base has been winning more than 70%, including wins against L10 players. Guys in my IMP squad (and myself) are accumulating defense wins everyday. The high win rate for some players is likely because of dev bases. If players have to face real bases, or not attacking down or sandbagging, then there is no “winning more than 99% of the time”. And don’t think you are the only player that wins defense. Geez.
I like armory effect to be reduced, so players don’t feel that they have to chase frags to be competitive, not because armory, as a whole, would increase offense winning percentage. Armory widens the gap between active players and casual players, so casual players eventually quit, and game would suffer as a result.


I’m not looking up player win stats. I’m going by people who say they literally go days on end racking up wins against live player bases and think SWC needs to be offense-based. I can go days on end without a loss without attacking a single dev base if I skip to find easier bases. Rebels can and do the exact same thing. I’m sure many imps are attacking dev bases during conflicts and winning most of the time that way, but more often than not they are attacking bases for CB. I get a lot defensive wins from new 10’s who are honestly attacking up with hails, buffed heavies and low level jet skin to get my 20k+ CB. There are different “tiers” of level 10 players and I don’t have a 70+% win rate against the top ones. When you’re a higher level player, you do have more options on targets depending on the planet and I still can find plenty of baby seals to club consistently for 5k CB or so at a time if I felt like it. I’m sure a lot of players are going after the easy CB vs. dev bases outside of conflicts. If rebels weren’t winning at the same rate as imps who have dev bases more readily available, I feel like they would be complaining a lot more on this forum. Winning attacks against non dev bases is probably A LOT easier than a lot of players would like to admit.


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